CROONAERT Posted 5 January , 2016 Share Posted 5 January , 2016 Does anyone know anything about the role of this asylum during 1914-18? There is quite an amount of information on the www regarding this place and it's history, but I can find nothing on its role during the Great War (I've recently been researching a soldier who died here in 1917...and, as far as I know, who is still buried in the (rather dilapidated) asylum cemetery). Thanks. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Posted 6 January , 2016 Share Posted 6 January , 2016 Wow, that is a though one for sure! I have found some actual photos of the cemetery. RM No 3 (Eure) of the Services de santé de l'armée. Hospitals listed for Évreux: HDC no 26, HC no 5, no 20 and no 53. I think it might be possible that a soldier has been sent to the asile (asylum) de Navarre at Évreux without it being part of the military hospitals. I also checked for asile / hospice keywords, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 6 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 6 January , 2016 RM No 3 (Eure) of the Services de santé de l'armée. Hospitals listed for Évreux: HDC no 26, HC no 5, no 20 and no 53. I think it might be possible that a soldier has been sent to the asile (asylum) de Navarre at Évreux without it being part of the military hospitals. There was also Hôpital Temporaire Nr.2 there, but I don't know of its exact location. Your theory is certainly possible (and, yes, it is a toughy! ... I usually only post requests on the GWF when I've exhausted everything else I can think of! ) Thanks for looking, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Posted 6 January , 2016 Share Posted 6 January , 2016 I hate to have to admit defeat, so I had to give it another shot. There was a Centre de neurologie de la 3e Région militaire at Évreux - Henri Français, director They were treating "obusite" (shell shock). I cannot find where this Centre was, but I would not be surprised if it was in an asylum! Oh what a long shot... But look here. pp: 657-661. You can generate the PDF to read it. I did not have time to read it all, but I haven't seen anything talking about the actual localisation of the Centre: http://www.biusante.parisdescartes.fr/histoire/medica/resultats/index.php What does the soldier's file about his stay at the hospital? I'm just curious, but if you'd rather not say, I understand Mars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 8 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2016 Thanks for the extra info, Mars. After a quick look through your linked site, I , too, cannot see any location given. However, an asylum would , indeed, be an ideal (and the most sensible?) location for such a set-up, so it's certainly a very likely possibility. As for my soldier's record... it doesn't give too much away, I'm afraid. On his service record, it simply states that he '"Died on 22nd August 1917 at Evreux" with no further detail given. His death record gives the location as being "L’asile d’aliènes d’Evreux" but isn't much further help as it states the cause of death as just being "illness". Cheers. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 8 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2016 ...it states the cause of death as just being "illness"... Just noticed an extra 's' on the record. He is actually recorded as having died of 'illnesses' (plural) .... though whether that makes a difference, I don't know! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Posted 8 January , 2016 Share Posted 8 January , 2016 That's a nice mystery. I see Léon-Stéphane Clément, died in December 1918 at the "asile" at Maxéville. At first, he wasn't "mort pour la France", but after revision in 1921, he was granted the honour. He is also noted as having died of "maladie" (illness). I'll keep an eye open, maybe there is some list somewhere of Poilus who died of illness "non à l'ennemi". I think I have seen somewhere that those who died of shellshock related illness, were not granted military honours. This requires more checking though. If the French did as I have seen done in the CEF, in cases of suicide, "illness" would be given as the cause of death, which was less dishonorable for the dead one and his family (and often the mental illness lead to the suicide). Although I am quite sure that you thought of contacting the Hôpital de Navarre at Évreux, I have to mention it anyway. Mars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 9 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2016 Although I am quite sure that you thought of contacting the Hôpital de Navarre at Évreux, I have to mention it anyway. Yes I did. I'm still currently awaiting a reply from them. (On top of any detail that they may have on my specific soldier, I also asked if they had any information on the role of the asylum as a whole during 1914-18.... I'll post back with their response (if I get one!)). Cheers. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 10 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2016 .... I'll post back with their response (if I get one!)). Well, I got a reply.... 'searching the archives is very difficult. We need to know the exact date and reason of entry to ease this difficulty'. Great! .... what they need from me is exactly what it is that I was trying to find out from them!!!! Anyway, I supplied them with what I had ...plus the most exact date of entry that I could (somewhere between June 1916 (the last reference in his record prior to his death) and August 1917 (his death - none too useful, but at least it prevents anyone looking for 1914 and 1915 entries)) a couple of weeks back. Not heard anything back as yet and am now becoming doubtful that I will. Ah well... It might just be one of those things that will have to pass by undiscovered. Cheers. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars Posted 11 February , 2016 Share Posted 11 February , 2016 Ah, bummer Some institutions can allow researchers to browse their archives. Maybe if you could go there directly. But... hmm.. knowing the French and how they have strict rules on archives, I would not bet on them letting you do the research sur place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 11 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2016 Ah, bummer Some institutions can allow researchers to browse their archives. Maybe if you could go there directly. But... hmm.. knowing the French and how they have strict rules on archives, I would not bet on them letting you do the research sur place. With the possibility of what I would imagine could be quite 'sensitive' documentation held in the archives of a psychiatric institute, I wouldn't think that there was much (if any) public access to their archives. Ah well...Evreux is much too far out of the way for me to travel just to put the 'full stop' at the end of this man's service (and life) anyway. It'll just have to be one of those questions that remains unanswered I suppose (unless, of course, the asylum actually does eventually get back to me). As a rather sad footnote to the story, it appears that the land upon which the cemetery in which he is buried (the rather aptly named cimetiere 'des fous' !) stands has been sold for redevelopment and won't be around for too much longer. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirrer Posted 11 February , 2016 Share Posted 11 February , 2016 It might be worth having a look at a French website www.chtimiste.com which I have used only for submitting a couple of photographs, I don't speak the language, but if you do, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 11 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2016 Thanks Stirrer. That's actually one of the websites that I refer to more than any others for various researches (it gives a good basic background before indulging deeper). Unfortunately, there's nothing on there for me in this case (even my reserchee's units , being less 'run of the mill' than usual (he saw his WW1 service in the 13e & 19e E.T.E.*) , aren't on it). Cheers anyway. Dave. * fortunately, I have the historiques for both of these units so it's not his actual military service where I have problems... though I could do with knowing exactly when his 'role' (in the 19e E.T.E) ended (ie. when exactly he was committed to the asylum). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirrer Posted 11 February , 2016 Share Posted 11 February , 2016 Just remembered - another very helpful French website is a forum similar to TGWF - will answer you in English if you ask. I have gained a lot of valuable info from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 11 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2016 Yes... Forum Pages 14-18. I've been a member on there for quite a few years now.... but, again, a blank. (and it's best to ask in French... you always get more response than asking in English) Cheers. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirrer Posted 11 February , 2016 Share Posted 11 February , 2016 Dear, dear - there's no hope - i'll give the web address to my last post now - www.pages14-18mesdiscussions.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 11 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 11 February , 2016 there's no hope I agree! The thing is, it's not the 'military' side of his story where I'm having problems (that was the easy bit!). I know that I'm at the mercy of the asylum archivist for my final part of the story... ... I don't think that there's anywhere else from where I'll be able to obtain my required information. I might get a response from them yet! (he says in hope!) Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 15 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2016 I might get a response from them yet! (he says in hope!) Well.... I take it all back!!! Just got a reply back and now have the exact date of my soldier's entry into the asylum. They also gave me the address and contact details of the location of the archive in which his asylum record is held (apparently, all pre-1985 records were moved from the asylum archive to this other one a while back). Just one step from totally completing this man's story now! My thanks to you both for your interest and assistance. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 26 August , 2021 Share Posted 26 August , 2021 Another footnote to this story: a petition has been got up on the website change.org (in French) to save the 460 graves of the cemetery and their occupants, which date from 1866 to 1974, from being obliterated under a planned bypass for Evreux without at least some archaeological research, identification of remains and removal to an ossuary. It has 9,300 signatures so far. Cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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