Skipman Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 I cannot find this man on CWGC, though there is a John Joseph MacDougall, I am sure it is not the same man. (I have his service record) Click Also Click From the Dundee Courier 3/11/1920 (Wednesday) " MacDougall-Died at 14 Kenmore Street Aberfeldy on the 31st (October) from illness contracted on Military Service, John J MacDougall, beloved husband of Jessie H Menzies, aged 39 years, deeply regretted. Funeral today (Wednesday) at 3 o'clock to Aberfeldy Cemetery. This the only intimation and invitation. Dundee Courier " I don't think there is a service record for this man? Cause of death Would this cause of death, and the newspaper report suggest a non Comm. Any thoughts welcome. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 Mike Possibly. As you'll know, there's two ways that a man gets commemorated. First is if he is still serving (does the death certificate give his occupation?). Or, second, he dies of something related to his service. The TB would be the possible link to service - but how to prove it? I think that will lie in his service papers at Kew - although I don't think I see a definite "hit" in AIR79. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 (edited) Thanks for reply John. Occupation Plumber, Father Angus MacDougall (Contractor) Mother Sarah MacDougall, formerly Kennedy, nee McLellan, died 31/10/1920 Aberfeldy For a long time I did think it was the John J MacDougall in CWGC. Air Mechanic a coincidence. I see my Geoff's engine links do not work? Mike Edited 24 April , 2017 by Skipman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 it's not this man Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 Mike In that case, you're definitely down to seeing if you can find his service papers in AIR79. Perhaps trying a range of surname spellings? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 November , 2012 Share Posted 3 November , 2012 Ok thanks John. Will let you know how I got on.I'm not familiar with RAF men at all, would he have a medal index card, and would I be able to find it in Discovery???? Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 November , 2012 Share Posted 3 November , 2012 I have found a couple of links that should help me. I use the services of an excellent researcher, so will get him on to it. There may be a service record for this man, but I assumed he was the " John Joseph MacDougall " in CWGC. I should assume nothing, should I? Click Click Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 3 November , 2012 Share Posted 3 November , 2012 Yeah, as I said, you'd expect there to be a record in AIR79 that you should be able to access online. I had a quick nosy and couldnt see one (hence the suggestion to try other spellings of the surname) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 November , 2012 Share Posted 3 November , 2012 Thanks John, I'll have another look. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 7 November , 2012 Share Posted 7 November , 2012 AIR 79 is fully name indexed in Discovery but (at the moment) the records themselves are not available for download, and can only be viewed at Kew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 November , 2012 Share Posted 7 November , 2012 Thank you David. Any chance someone could give a link to search/index page, I'm really struggling to find it. Then at least I can see if there are possible matches? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 7 November , 2012 Share Posted 7 November , 2012 This http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_aq=Macdougall&_ep=&_or1=&_or2=&_or3=&_nq1=&_nq2=&_nq3=&_sd=&_ed=&_col=all&_sw=ref&_cr1=Air+79&_cr2=&_cr3=&_ps=15&_ro=any&_rd=&_rsd=&_red=&_fr=&_st=adv should return all the Macdougall's in AIR 79 Note that the final part of the catalogue reference (after the second /) is the man's service number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 November , 2012 Share Posted 7 November , 2012 Thank you very much David. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 November , 2012 Share Posted 7 November , 2012 This appears to be them all? AIR 79/220/20650 AIR 79/2129/236580 Will get on to it, and report back in a wee while (weeks) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 December , 2012 Share Posted 17 December , 2012 Well I now have the correct man, and his service record. Not sure if he is a non-comm, but probably? Some information from his service record 20650 Current Engagement in HM Forces State whether Army, Navy, or RAF-Army Man service 4/2/1916 Age 35 17/365 Duration of War Date of Actual Entry into R.F.C. 4/2/1916 R.A.F. 1/4/1918 Prior Engagement in H.M. Forces 3 years 5 Vol Bn Royal Highlanders Civilian Emloyment Coppersmith & Plumber Medical Boards Examined by J? M. B. 7/10/1918 and categorized B2 Awarded SWB 7018 Date of Effect 28/4/1919 " No entry on casualty card. Card destroyed 27/5/1920 RAF Feb 1921 Widow awarded pension of 26/8 or 17/6, allowance for children from 3/11/1920 SWB (RAF) probably doesn't survive. No MIC's RAF? and possibly didn't serve overseas, I think served 19 Training Squadron. Believe this Ireland? All thoughts welcome. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 December , 2012 Share Posted 18 December , 2012 Does any of this information help. Does the fact he received a SWB, and his wife and children received a pension, mean his condition was brought about by Military Service. What is B2? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 20 December , 2012 Admin Share Posted 20 December , 2012 SWB (RAF) probably doesn't survive. Mike I'm afraid it doesn't. I had a look in Kew today and the only surviving ones are in AIR2/197 and they are only a sample. Roughly htere are about 50 RAF SWB entries surviving. I don't know if a post in the War in the Air section might get some more information. Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 December , 2012 Share Posted 21 December , 2012 Good lad Glen, I was beginning to think I had posted a howler. Thanks for the suggestion, and I will do that. Cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 Mike, The problem here is the Diabetes, which can't possibly be due to military service. In the absence of any medical evidence in his record to that effect, then the TB also has to be considered unrelated to military service also. Lots of TB cases are accepted, and lots rejected by the CWGC. I think it all boils down to the quality of the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 We are still missing a cause of discharge. Without that, this is a non-runner, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 OK thank you all, appreciate your time an expertise. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 On 02/11/2012 at 17:36, Skipman said: From the Dundee Courier 3/11/1920 (Wednesday) " MacDougall-Died at 14 Kenmore Street Aberfeldy on the 31st (October) from illness contracted on Military Service, John J MacDougall, Frustrating isn't it? Obviously the Courier printed what was submitted to them, presumably by his wife, who must have been given the information from a reliable source. Unfortunately , a written copy of that information doesn't seem to survive anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 3 July , 2017 Share Posted 3 July , 2017 Thanks Dai. Yes, who knows, something might turn up some day. Thank as ever for your interest. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 7 July , 2017 Share Posted 7 July , 2017 I've had an accepted non-commemoration case where the discharge was due to diabetes, and the man's condition was held to have been aggravated by military service, butwithout definite confirmation in this case it will be hard to get it accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 July , 2017 Share Posted 7 July , 2017 Thanks David. If I find further evidence will post. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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