Guest Paul P Posted 26 April , 2010 Share Posted 26 April , 2010 Can anyone help identify the Regiment of this soldier? The photograph could possibly date from 1870 - 1910. I believe the soldier to be Serjeant Major George Widdis, possibly of the Rifle Brigade? Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted 26 April , 2010 Share Posted 26 April , 2010 Hi Paul, A bit more definition on the cross belt would be good, I think from looking at Rifle badges of the period he is from a Rifle Regiment in the City od London and I ere on the side of the The Queens Royal Rifles. Looks to be late 1800's and yes he is a Sgt Major. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 26 April , 2010 Share Posted 26 April , 2010 Victorian, by the crown on the pouch belt. The badge looks like Queen's Westminsters to me (or an antecedent volunteer regiment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul P Posted 26 April , 2010 Share Posted 26 April , 2010 Thank you for the prompt replies. Here is an enlargement of the badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 27 April , 2010 Share Posted 27 April , 2010 Definitely not Rifle Brigade. The central boss looks too big to be KRRC. One of the KRRC affiliated London rifle volunteers units is a good bet, and I agree with Steven - QWRs most likely. Another possibility is one of the KRR's late Victorian militia battalions. They seem to favour the little balls on the points of the maltese cross, but that central boss doesn't look like a strung hunting horn. Not sure what Rob means by Queens Royal Rifles?? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 27 April , 2010 Share Posted 27 April , 2010 One of the KRRC affiliated London rifle volunteers units is a good bet, and I agree with Steven - QWRs most likely. Cheers, Mark Only thing that hits me is that the Westminsters were one of the "Grey Brigade". This chap looks like he's in rifle green. Only a thought, but the badge does look like the Westminsters'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 27 April , 2010 Share Posted 27 April , 2010 There are 9 pages of George Widdis's pre-1896 service record on FindmyPast. Do you have these? 5400 Sjt Maj George Widdis, discharged from 6th Bn Rifle Brigade on 9 May 1896 aged 50 "having reached the age for discharge" after 32 years' service. Intended residence 7 Railway Rd, Dalkey, Co. Dublin. Holder of the Canadian General Service Medal with clasps "Fenian Raid 1866" and "Fenian Raid 1870". Briefly: 9/5/1864 enlisted at Westminster as Pte John COLLINS no. 790 in 1st RB, age 18, PoB Rith[something], Co. Dublin. (Changed name to George WIDDIS 11/3/1867). 5/3/72 Promoted Corporal 1/9/74 Promoted Serjeant 16/6/77 Transferred to Staff of Longford Militia, 6th RB 4/11/77 Appointed S.T.M.Ry (?!) 17/4/80 Promoted Serjeant Major 1/7/81 Appointed WO 10/5/94 Sjt Major, 6th RB 9/5/96 Discharged Served in Canada 16/7/64 to 18/9/70, otherwise at Home. Married Mary Anne SHERWOOD at Collinstown, Co Westmeath, on 17 August 1877. Adrian EDIT: I'd guess he was the father of Sjt George Richard WIDDIS, born Longford c.1882, on the 1911 census with 4th Rifle Brigade at The Citadel in Cairo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 28 April , 2010 Share Posted 28 April , 2010 It's that raised wreath around the centre which disinclines me to say it is KRRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 April , 2010 Share Posted 28 April , 2010 Only thing that hits me is that the Westminsters were one of the "Grey Brigade". This chap looks like he's in rifle green. Only a thought, but the badge does look like the Westminsters'. Absolutely correct - a QWR Sgt Mjr would indeed be in grey! Schoolboy Error on my part from focussng too much just on the badge! I'm going back through my photo library now looking for RB senior NCOs wearing the cross belt. I was assuming the cross belt badge would follow the cap badge and have the laurel wreath surrounding the maltese cross - i.e. it would look similar to the 2/RGJ cross belt, which was of course the successor to the RB. Now Staffsyeoman mentions "that raised wreath around the centre" what I was seeing as the circlet with the regiment name could indeed be a wreath, which swings us back to the RB and affiliated battalions. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 April , 2010 Share Posted 28 April , 2010 No luck with RB senior NCO cross belt pictures and in fact the only late Victorian RB full dress officer image I had has so much flare off the patent leather of the cross belt that you cannot even see the badge! Here's a KRRC senior NCO from c.1900 out in India ... Some KRRC officer cross belts ... WW1 ......................................... Modern (1/RGJ in fact) Out of attachment space, so I'll have to start another post :-) Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 April , 2010 Share Posted 28 April , 2010 However, I did find this in my archive ... Unnamed 4/RB senior NCO ........................ SM Widdis - This was a picture on fleaBay described as 4th Rifle Brigade, Devonport c.1892. The full photo does have a Plymouth photography studio mark, so the last part is probably true, but the battalion info may be unreliable. Looks like the same man to me ... but then I nearly convinced myself that my KRRC chap in India was him too! Perhaps the cross belt badge is to the Longford Militia and thus not the standard circular RB one?? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 April , 2010 Share Posted 28 April , 2010 Paul, Strongly recommend you edit the Topic Title to add in a second line mentioning Sjt Widdis of Rifle Brigade. You're then likely to attract in a certain RB expert who may well have a lot of info that will help you. What exactly is your line of research? Is Sjt Widdis a relative? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 28 April , 2010 Share Posted 28 April , 2010 Certainly not a Rifle Brigade cross belt, but if we look at his record, if it is Widdis, supplied by Adrian he is down as 6th Militia which was Royal Longford Militia. Time line is right now we just need to find a badge for this unit. 6th (Militia) Battalion, The Rifle Brigade Raised 1793 at Newton Forbes as the Prince or Wales Royal Longford Militia Redesignated 1854 as the Prince of Wales Royal Longford Rifles Redesignated 1855 as the Prince or Wales Royal Regiment of Longford Light Infantry Became 6th (Militia) Battalion The Rifle Brigade on 1st July 1881 Amalgamated 1st April 1899 with 9th Battalion to form 6th Battalion (Royal Longford & Westmeath Militia) In the Cardwell reforms of 1881 the Militia was aligned with the regular army and five Militia regiments were allocated to The Rifle Brigade and became a back door for officers unable to pass the entrance exams to The Royal Military Academy for various reasons, service overseas etc. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 April , 2010 Share Posted 28 April , 2010 In the Cardwell reforms of 1881 the Militia was aligned with the regular army and five Militia regiments were allocated to The Rifle Brigade and became a back door for officers unable to pass the entrance exams to The Royal Military Academy for various reasons, service overseas etc. Andy SOME BACK DOOR! I have in front of me Regs Commissions Regular Forces for Militia and Imp Yeo. Commissions may be granted to: officers who succeed at a competitive examination and who, before sitting that exam: are between 20 and 25 years served two annual trainings with unit having a leaving or qualifying certificate from an approved educational establishment or from the Army Qualifying Board have been attached to a regular unit for at least 2 months and been instructed to a satisfactory standard in military subjects, certified by CO must be recommended by CO and produce evidence as to character. I certify that I retired as a Principal Scientific Officer 12 years ago and would struggle to pass the exam, the syllabus for which I have in front of me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 28 April , 2010 Share Posted 28 April , 2010 No joy with finding an image of the cross belt badge of the Longford Militia on the British Badge Forum, nor any of its various other titles as supplied by Andy. The Westmeath Militia badge appears to be based on an Irish Harp, so not that. Unless we can unearth a Longford Militia badge that looks like this, then I think we have to conclude that this picture cannot be an RB man and thus cannot be Widdis. Just want to add that it seems the QWRs may have had a rifle green dress variant after all, though we're struggling to find anything documented about that. We'll pass that over to the Londons experts I think! A bit more about the source of the photo and why you think it is Widdis may help us here Paul. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 29 April , 2010 Share Posted 29 April , 2010 Grumpy, I have sent you a message, I think there has been some misunderstanding in that it was not meant struggle to pass the exams mentally, as I fear I would be in the same boat as yourself with regard to this, but could not take the exams in that they were or had served prolonged periods overseas for example. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 30 April , 2010 Share Posted 30 April , 2010 David, In your rank badges Topic, I found this: 4 chevrons point up, lower sleeve, and a crown was pre-war unique [well, almost unique, excluding Household Cavalry and Pipe Majors Foot Guards] badge for an Acting Sergeant-Major of Militia/ SR; VF/TF .... acting because it was usually a regular CSgt or QMS posted in. Could that then point to the "unamed 4/RB senior NCO" I posted above actually being a 4/RB colour serjeant attached to 6/RB (the Longford Militia) as their Acting Serjeant Major? That would support my photo matching Widdis's service history. Would a 4/RB regular ever wear the 4 chevrons and crown while still in 4/RB? Of course we still have the problem with the unwreathed maltese cross crossbelt badge which I think we're all now agreed is definitely NOT RB. Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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