chrisainsley Posted 13 February , 2010 Share Posted 13 February , 2010 I wonder if any of you WW1 wizzes could help Imagine my delight/surprise/awe when an elderly relative produced photo’s, a medal with its certificate of Medaille Militaire AND dog tags for my great uncle His name was Driver William Mosse service number 95797 (the dog tag is quite faded but I am sure that is the number, perhaps the second 9 might be a 0 but I’m pretty sure it is a 9) The dog tag has the letter C above the RFA He served in the RFA 130th Battery (that is what is on the certificate) His medal was issued on the 24th July 1915 cert no 2725 The date of his deed was 19th November 1914 (that’s on the certificate) I would be very interested to know why he was awarded that medal…does anyone know the specifics??? Or how I can find out what he and the 130th Battery were doing that day and where He seems to have survived the war?..the attached picture was his wedding day..he also appears to be a corporal by then I recently looked into another relative and started with nothing..but it seems there is just about every piece of info here required for old William!! I would be very grateful for anyone’s assistance Best regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 13 February , 2010 Share Posted 13 February , 2010 Chris He seems to have been attached to 3 Division HQ at the time of entitlement to the 1914 Star,for which he landed in France on 19 Aug 1914.I am wondering if he was a member of the Division's Ammunition Column. There is no reference to RFA 130 Battery in 3 Div ORBAT,though it may have been part of a Brigade. There was a 30 Brigade in 3 Div but unless you look in the War Diary for the makeup of the RFA Brigades,or someone here has detail down to Battery level,you may not get to know. I can place you in the right general zone for the Artillery War Dairies of 3 Div but can't quote the specific one,which might hold some info for you. WO95/1401 and 1402 have various RFA units. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisainsley Posted 13 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2010 Chris He seems to have been attached to 3 Division HQ at the time of entitlement to the 1914 Star,for which he landed in France on 19 Aug 1914.I am wondering if he was a member of the Division's Ammunition Column. There is no reference to RFA 130 Battery in 3 Div ORBAT,though it may have been part of a Brigade. There was a 30 Brigade in 3 Div but unless you look in the War Diary for the makeup of the RFA Brigades,or someone here has detail down to Battery level,you may not get to know. I can place you in the right general zone for the Artillery War Dairies of 3 Div but can't quote the specific one,which might hold some info for you. WO95/1401 and 1402 have various RFA units. Sotonmate I downloaded his medal card and indeed he was awarded the 1914 star...i just got it from the archives...but thats not the medaille militaire is it??...I presume the medaille militaire was awarded for something specific? there is no mention of that on the medal card but as it was a french award would there be??..i'm a bit of a novice...sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisainsley Posted 13 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2010 I downloaded his medal card and indeed he was awarded the 1914 star...i just got it from the archives...but thats not the medaille militaire is it??...I presume the medaille militaire was awarded for something specific? there is no mention of that on the medal card but as it was a french award would there be??..i'm a bit of a novice...sorry I also know the 130th was a howitzer battery attached to the 3rd divison..what brigade i dont know heres the dog tag attached to a bracelet...makes you think doesnt it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 13 February , 2010 Share Posted 13 February , 2010 EG My point about finding the War Diary is that there is a possibility that the award of the Med Militaire is covered on those pages,and if you find the Diary you might find the citation,or more of a description of why he won it. I have now discovered that 130 (H) Battery,together with 128 and 129,were part of XXX(30) Brigade RFA from Aug 1914 to Jan 1916 and their war is recorded in WO95/1399 at the NA. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 13 February , 2010 Share Posted 13 February , 2010 Without wishing to tread on sotonmates toes, the Medaille Militaire was awarded by the French, and would therefore be in respect of some action involving the French. I think in November 1914, the French and British were just starting to push the Germans back in some places. Perhaps there are French or British Army records detailing localised attacks around that date? From the Long Long Trail (the little "LLT" button on the GWF masthead) the main fighting around 18th November was the first Battle of Ypres, but that was Belgium, so maybe not where a French medal would be awarded???? ..... Nonne Bosschen, where is that??? Now, I'll bow out and let sostonmate get on with helping you find out more!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 13 February , 2010 Share Posted 13 February , 2010 KW4 I have seen an entry for the award of the French MM occasionally in the text of War Diaries,which is why I say that it might be shown in this one too ! Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Chris, I too did some searching for citations for the Medaille Militaire without success. The awards were published in the LG, the first of which seems to be on 22nd February 1916 then another list of names on 30th March 1916 and then at intervals up to 1920. 95797, Driver William Mosse doesn't appear in any of the lists. But the fact that you have "His medal was issued on the 24th July 1915 cert no 2725" would indicate that the medal was issued prior to 22nd February 1916 but that the awards were not published in the LG. I agree with Sotonmate that you should try to check the war diary in case the award is mentioned there. Also check local press archives for the period if available. See also this previous thread with a suggested contact address - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...=121929&hl= John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Hi Chris William Mosse was one of the first British servicemen of the war to be awarded the Medaille Militaire. These were not Gazetted but were awarded under Army Order No 466 of 1914, which announced that they were awarded for gallantry during operations between 21st & 30th Aug 1914. This Army Order listed 198 recipients of the Medaille Militaire. He is listed as 95797 Driver W Mosse, 130th Battery RFA. Then two more Army Orders, 490 of 1914 & 23 of 1915 followed listing one man each announcing the same as above. The first Medaille Militaire gazetted was to FM Lord French in the gazette dated 16 Mar 1915 & the first ones to OR's were dated 24 Feb 1916. As to citations, these are very rare to find. You can pick up a Medaille Militaire fairly cheap to add to your certificate. Hope this helps Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Peter, Would you have copies of the lists you refer to? Or point me in the right direction to get them? Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Peter, Would you have copies of the lists you refer to? Or point me in the right direction to get them? Cheers John Hi John I have a database of WW1 service personel that are Gazetted or have official recognition to foreign awards that I have put together over nine years from many sources, mainly the LG. At present I have over 37 000 names and I still do not claim to have 100% but I must be very close. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 14 February , 2010 Share Posted 14 February , 2010 Hi John I have a database of WW1 service personel that are Gazetted or have official recognition to foreign awards that I have put together over nine years from many sources, mainly the LG. At present I have over 37 000 names and I still do not claim to have 100% but I must be very close. Peter Peter, While trying not to hi-jack this thread, I wondered if I could ask you to look up a KRRC Old Contemptible in your Medaille Militaire database for me? His name was 9190 Archibald Hoare, RSM, 2/KRRC, commissioned 2Lt in October 1914. He appears to have won the Medaille Militaire for his part in the Retreat from Mons and the Battle of the Marne, when he was still the RSM, but it is possible the award may be after he received his Commission. There's a picture and some further details of this interesting Rifleman here: Capt Archie Hoare in Grumpy's Medal Ribbons topic If you want to reply by PM, that would be great by me as it will "invade" this Topic less! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 His name was 9190 Archibald Hoare, RSM, 2/KRRC, commissioned 2Lt in October 1914. Hi Mark His Medaille Militaire is awarded for the same period as William Mosse, but as a Serjeant Major 2/KRRC. The 3 Army Orders were for ORs only, as stated above Lord French was next then Feb 1916 for the next ones to be gazetted. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisainsley Posted 15 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 15 February , 2010 Thanks everyone I will get the war diary from the NA for the 130th RFA and see if there is any information... Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 The dog tag has the letter C above the RFA Looking at the image of his 'private purchase' tag that you've posted (which, incidentally, appears to have been made out of a Mle.1881 French army 'blank' disc or copy thereof), does it not actually read 'RC' (for Roman Catholic) rather than just 'C' ? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 Well spotted Croonaert!! Another "French" connection..... I wonder if the rifle (or part thereof) was part of the same incident for which he got his Medaille Militaire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 15 February , 2010 Share Posted 15 February , 2010 Another "French" connection..... I wonder if the rifle (or part thereof) was part of the same incident for which he got his Medaille Militaire? Kevin... a Mle.1881 'blank' is referring to an unissued standard (pre 1918) pattern French army identity disc, not a rifle. Unissued French 'dogtags' (and purposely manufactured copies) were possibly the most common type of 'private purchase' identity tag available to the British Army of 1914-18. Dave (as an aside... if the tag on the image actually is a re-utilised issue French tag, then it dates from after May 1915 (therefore, nothing to do with the medal winning escapade). The chain bracelet itself doesn't appear to be French standard issue though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 16 February , 2010 Share Posted 16 February , 2010 Hi Chris System would not allow me to answer your other question, so will do it here. I was given the info from a friend so can only assume AO's are available from the NA & the dates I gave you are from the AO. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisainsley Posted 16 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2010 Looking at the image of his 'private purchase' tag that you've posted (which, incidentally, appears to have been made out of a Mle.1881 French army 'blank' disc or copy thereof), does it not actually read 'RC' (for Roman Catholic) rather than just 'C' ? Dave I think it looks like there could be an R there doesnt it...well spotted interesting that this was private purchase tag... the other item was some kind of memorabiliar that he got from a cathedral apparantly...we know that much..so it fits with the catholic thing altho of course there are other denomination cathedrals...looks like our lady on it tho..i will look more carefully the next time it is in my possession thanks for your eagle eyes! Hi Chris System would not allow me to answer your other question, so will do it here. I was given the info from a friend so can only assume AO's are available from the NA & the dates I gave you are from the AO. Peter Ive ordered the order 466 (1914) WO 123/56 as well as the battery diary from NA's thanks Peter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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