cindyathome Posted 12 June , 2008 Share Posted 12 June , 2008 Hi members, trying to piece together what the uniform woudl have looked like for my great grandfather Alexander Thomson who served in teh Motor Ambulance ASC M2 unit. Anyone have any descriptions or better still, pictures of what it was like. been trying to purchase badges, or regimental colours, items of uniform but unable to accurately identify what the uniform would have been. Eagerly awaiting anyones reply Cindy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 June , 2008 Share Posted 12 June , 2008 Hi members, trying to piece together what the uniform woudl have looked like for my great grandfather Alexander Thomson who served in teh Motor Ambulance ASC M2 unit. Anyone have any descriptions or better still, pictures of what it was like. been trying to purchase badges, or regimental colours, items of uniform but unable to accurately identify what the uniform would have been. Eagerly awaiting anyones reply Cindy This is the cap badge of the ASC Cindy. The solid (un-voided) version was issued as an economy from 1916 on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDRFT Posted 12 June , 2008 Share Posted 12 June , 2008 This is the cap badge of the ASC Cindy. The solid (un-voided) version was issued as an economy from 1916 on. Cindy If you pm me I can give you the UK tele nos for a guy who deals in badges etc and I have just bought an ASC cap badge from him for only £4.00 and he has loads. If you search on here for coloured photos there are some of both ASC and Amb drivers which some one has taken the black and white and coloured. I cant for the life of me remember which member that was though. My Grand dad was a driver in MT ASC and have some generic info but not sure it will help you. Ther are some VERY knowledgable folks on here who offer so much info. Good luck and send me the pm! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDRFT Posted 12 June , 2008 Share Posted 12 June , 2008 Hi members, trying to piece together what the uniform woudl have looked like for my great grandfather Alexander Thomson who served in teh Motor Ambulance ASC M2 unit. Anyone have any descriptions or better still, pictures of what it was like. been trying to purchase badges, or regimental colours, items of uniform but unable to accurately identify what the uniform would have been. Eagerly awaiting anyones reply Cindy Was your grandfather Australian or was he british? do you have dates of birth / death and regimental nos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 June , 2008 Share Posted 12 June , 2008 Hi members, trying to piece together what the uniform woudl have looked like for my great grandfather Alexander Thomson who served in teh Motor Ambulance ASC M2 unit. Anyone have any descriptions or better still, pictures of what it was like. Cindy Cindy, herewith some ASC soldiers in uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 12 June , 2008 Share Posted 12 June , 2008 I think the gentleman in the above photograph is part of the ASC using horse-drawn vehicles. You can't see the tapes at the top of his putties, suggesting they are worn the mounted way (with the tapes ending at the bottom), and also he has ASC shoulder titles - I believe, but could be wrong, that those involved with motor vehicles had MT shoulder titles, standing for Motor (or Mechanical) Transport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 June , 2008 Share Posted 12 June , 2008 I think the gentleman in the above photograph is part of the ASC using horse-drawn vehicles. You can't see the tapes at the top of his putties, suggesting they are worn the mounted way (with the tapes ending at the bottom), and also he has ASC shoulder titles - I believe, but could be wrong, that those involved with motor vehicles had MT shoulder titles, standing for Motor (or Mechanical) Transport You could well be right about the puttees. I am just trying to give an idea of the uniform worn by ASC soldiers in general, clearly I cannot replicate the dress of the relative concerned. As regards shoulder titles, all ASC wore brass titles configured 'ASC' in block letters with seraphs, although a cloth badge of some kind 'might' have been worn indicating MT duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 12 June , 2008 Share Posted 12 June , 2008 According to Westlake, and illustrated by him, Motor Companies of the ASC had the brass (perhaps gilding-metal for purists) title MT over ASC, changing to MT; I have such a title in my collection. Not seen or heard of cloth versions, but anything is possible. In the main, then, ASC men would wear standard Service Dress, with horse-mounted men being distinguished by the convention on puttees described. They would have had the titles discussed. In their first book on WW1 steel helmets, Haselgrove & Radovic illustrate a Mark i Brodie worn by an ASC ambulance man, Private Masters VC; this had a cloth cover with attached Geneva cross, most interesting. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindyathome Posted 13 June , 2008 Author Share Posted 13 June , 2008 hI THERE, He was british (born in montrose, Scotland). Date of birth 28/29 April 1898 Reg no 121169/M2. Managed to find his medal record card and match up to the medals i have at home. Was your grandfather Australian or was he british? do you have dates of birth / death and regimental nos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 13 June , 2008 Share Posted 13 June , 2008 According to Westlake, and illustrated by him, Motor Companies of the ASC had the brass (perhaps gilding-metal for purists) title MT over ASC, changing to MT; I have such a title in my collection. Not seen or heard of cloth versions, but anything is possible. Thanks Peter - do you know when abouts it changed over from MT over ASC to just the MT? Cheers, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 13 June , 2008 Share Posted 13 June , 2008 Westlake gives no date, but I guess it would be 1917 when a lot of similar changes were made. Have you looked at Michael Young's book Army Service Corps 1902–1918 (Pen &Sword)? It will have some details I'm sure, and states that from '17 January 1917 the MT became reorganised on a Corps basis', so would presume this was the time the titles changed. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 13 June , 2008 Share Posted 13 June , 2008 Thanks again - unfortunately don't have that book, but i'll add it to my shopping list. Thanks, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 June , 2008 Share Posted 13 June , 2008 Thanks again - unfortunately don't have that book, but i'll add it to my shopping list. Thanks, Rob Interesting as I have seen few examples of a MT title and never yet a photo of one being worn. If worn after 1917 it was for but a short time I suspect. The RLC museum is just up the road from me, I will enquire there. Either way there is no guarantee that such a title was worn by the man queried in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 13 June , 2008 Share Posted 13 June , 2008 Interesting as I have seen few examples of a MT title and never yet a photo of one being worn. If worn after 1917 it was for but a short time I suspect. The RLC museum is just up the road from me, I will enquire there. Either way there is no guarantee that such a title was worn by the man queried in this thread. True, but MT titles are out there, commonly seen and were undoubtedly worn, otherwise why would they have been produced (not the most interesting or dynamic of war souvenirs)? There is equally no certainty that the gentleman in question wore simple ASC titles, or wound his puttees from ankle to knee, or vice versa... I'd be interested to see what the RLC has to say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-munden Posted 13 June , 2008 Share Posted 13 June , 2008 Hi Cindy Here's a pic of my gg-father Charles George Munden, Motor Driver M2/104343, who was also in the ASC, with his mates at Seaford just before he went with 36 Div Ammo Train to France in Sep1915 - though he wasn't with the Ambulances. Hope this helps you put together the ASC uniform. Though it's a bit fuzzy in this cut-down picture, the full-spec pic is a bit sharper. PM me if you want that version. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 June , 2008 Share Posted 13 June , 2008 Hi Cindy Here's a pic of my gg-father Charles George Munden, Motor Driver M2/104343, who was also in the ASC, with his mates at Seaford just before he went with 36 Div Ammo Train to France in Sep1915 - though he wasn't with the Ambulances. Hope this helps you put together the ASC uniform. Though it's a bit fuzzy in this cut-down picture, the full-spec pic is a bit sharper. PM me if you want that version. Cheers James Great pic, likely to be either late 1914 or early 1915. Many economy pattern SD tunics, 1903 bandolier equipment waist belts and stiffened SD caps. Shoulder titles are ASC and several appear to be wearing the whitened 'style' lanyards worn by 'Gunners' so that would fit in with them being an ammunition train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDRFT Posted 13 June , 2008 Share Posted 13 June , 2008 Cindy These guys were ASC and I am told MT section but no idea re ambulance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 13 June , 2008 Share Posted 13 June , 2008 Any chance of a close up of the shoulder titles? Thanks! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War Truck Posted 14 June , 2008 Share Posted 14 June , 2008 This is very interesting and something that i have pondered over before. My understanding is (and i would be delighted to be corrected) that all lorry drivers who were in the ASC wore just ASC shoulder titles. MT titles were worn by drivers who were not in the ASC and attached to other units. An example of this is in CP Mills book "A strange war" where he refers to the men of the ASC and the MT often getting into scraps with each other over unpleasant comments about each others lorries or cap badges. Interestingly (well to me anyway) is that ASC drivers were attached to other formations such as the artillery as lorry drivers. If you ever study the cap badges of a mobile AA unit for example you will often see two sorts of cap badge. Royal Artillery and ASC. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 June , 2008 Share Posted 14 June , 2008 This is very interesting and something that i have pondered over before. My understanding is (and i would be delighted to be corrected) that all lorry drivers who were in the ASC wore just ASC shoulder titles. MT titles were worn by drivers who were not in the ASC and attached to other units. An example of this is in CP Mills book "A strange war" where he refers to the men of the ASC and the MT often getting into scraps with each other over unpleasant comments about each others lorries or cap badges. Interestingly (well to me anyway) is that ASC drivers were attached to other formations such as the artillery as lorry drivers. If you ever study the cap badges of a mobile AA unit for example you will often see two sorts of cap badge. Royal Artillery and ASC. Tim Spot on Tim. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 14 June , 2008 Share Posted 14 June , 2008 Cheers Tim - that makes certain sense. I'd love to know what they said about each other's lorries - 'My Albion is prettier than your Dennis!' etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 14 June , 2008 Share Posted 14 June , 2008 Which is fine, but how does that explain the MT over ASC titles, and is Westlake wrong in thinking it just went to MT, which seems to tie in with the comments in Michael Young's book? I guess so if what you are saying is correct? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDRFT Posted 15 June , 2008 Share Posted 15 June , 2008 I shall try and get a close up of the shoulder badge. Looking at the picture under a glass it is clealry ASC, the corporal sitting has a medal ribbon and a patch of some sort on his right sleeve, just under where the fold in the picture once was!!There is a tale on the back about the picture but so badly faded. I think I shall post this picture again under new topic for the experts to review. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-munden Posted 15 June , 2008 Share Posted 15 June , 2008 Great pic, likely to be either late 1914 or early 1915. Many economy pattern SD tunics, 1903 bandolier equipment waist belts and stiffened SD caps. Shoulder titles are ASC and several appear to be wearing the whitened 'style' lanyards worn by 'Gunners' so that would fit in with them being an ammunition train. Yes sure is a good pic of great grandad (he in the front row, 2nd from left). Date? - well, the pic is on the other side of a postcard dated 15 Jun 1915 which he sent to his son, my g-father. Wasn't allowed to say where he was but the clue is in the message - "...have you been to the seaside lately?" - the postmark is Lee.S.O.S.E. (perhaps Lee Sorting Office South East?). I'm guessing that to be near Seaford: the Long Long Trail says of the 36th Division that it moved to Seaford in July 1915 (perhaps the ASC men were there earlier?) where Kitchener inspected them on 27 July 1915 and KG V on 30 September 1915. Grandad landed in France 4 Oct 1915. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevew Posted 16 June , 2008 Share Posted 16 June , 2008 I think this is an interesting thread. I have a Gt gt uncle who served with the ASC and was killed whilst attached to No. 1 Filed Amb, his service number was M1/08939 and he was a Pte. As a civilian he was a lorry driver. What I find strange is he was killed with a fellow ASC man who was a Drv and the medic, I have never understood why my uncle was a Pte. and not a Drv, and what is the difference between the M1 and M2 in the service number Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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