12th Lancers

[Stephen Barker]

I've struggled to find anything out about this unit that my wife's great uncle served with.

Anything general would help - or if you could point me in the right direction.

Thank you

Stephen

[Patrick ODwyer]

There are two histories I know of: This one by Charrington 12TH ROYAL LANCERS IN FRANCE

http://www.naval-military-press.com/12TH-R...18-p-20865.html

and one by Stewart, which covers a longer period called 'History of the XII Royal Lancers'

[LANCER]

Hi Stephen

The 9/12th Museum in Derby has a touch screen database of all Great War men.This might be of some use.

Lancer

[Stephen Barker]

If his MIC refers to his being with Corps of Lancers - what does this indicate? What more can I find out.

Stephen

[Ron Clifton]

If his MIC refers to his being with Corps of Lancers - what does this indicate? What more can I find out.

Stephen

Stephen

Men for all six regular Lancer regiments were enlisted into the Corps of Lancers of the Line, rather than to a specific regiment, although cross-posings were comparatively rare.

12 Lancers spent the whole war as part of 5 Cavalry Brigade, which went to France in Aug 1914 as an independent brigade. It joined 2nd Cavalry Division on the latter's formation in Sep 1914 and remained with it, in France, until after the Armistice.

The War Diary is in the National Archives at Kew, in file WO95/1140.

Ron

[Stephen Barker]

Ron

I put 12th in error His mic says Corps of Lancers. Where do I begin?

Stephen

[Patrick ODwyer]

What is his name and number Stephen?

[Stephen Barker]

Patrick

His name is Robert J Burlingham. I have his mic. number L/1682. (if this doesn't make sense could be L16824)

Thanks for your help.

Stephen

[Chris_Baker]

His regiment should be given on the medal roll(s).

[Patrick ODwyer]

I would estimate he enlisted early in the war by his Lancers' number and served in France with the Army Service Corps from 17 July 1915. He must have transferred to them and then back again as his Medals, although perhaps impressed to the ASC (Have you got them?), appear on the Cavalry Medal Rolls. I don't know about ASC numbers though!

As Chris says worth checking the Roll

[Stephen Barker]

Chris and Patrick

Its just states ASC and Corps of Lancers - nothing else. Is it possible to pin him down further?

No medals available unfortunately.

Thanks for your help

Stephen

[Stephen Barker]

His ASC number was T3/02872.

Corps of lancers number L/1682. Is it possible to find out which Lancer unit?

Stephen

[Patrick ODwyer]

His ASC number was T3/02872.

Corps of lancers number L/1682. Is it possible to find out which Lancer unit?

Stephen

I read L16824 on the MIC. Which unit could be on the Medal Roll but not all were indicated if I recall. I suspect if Not on MIC not on Roll either as his medals may have been impressed to ASC - does anyone have them? It just may be his BW&VM are impressed to Lancers.

[Ron Clifton]

Stephen/Patrick

I would expect the medal roll to show the actual regiment. For infantry, MICs only give the regiment but the rolls give the battalion.

Alternatively, "Soldiers Died" is by regiment, and examination of men with numbers close to his might give a pointer to the most likely regiment.

Ron

[Stephen Barker]

Ron and Patrick thanks for your help with this.

I'll start another thread asking for some kind soul to examine numbers close to L/16824

Thank you for your time.

Stephen

[Patrick ODwyer]

These were all 12th Lancers - you could check their MICs

16820

16810

16814

16815

[Stephen Barker]

Patrick

What is the origin of these numbers? This looks promising, perhaps??

Thanks

Stephen

[Patrick ODwyer]

Did a quick MIC search on line. Try Ancestry or TNA site. If you can't let me know but I am off now for tonight!

[Jeremy Churchill]

Hi there,

If anyone with an interest in Lancer regiments reads this, I recently posted a request for information about GS Lancers (Great War Forum/Documents, photos, art/Interpreting service records and medal index cards).

In this, I was asking for information about Corporal Frederick Giles Cooper Warr of the 9th Queens Royal Lancers who had the number GS-11549, and was then transferred (I think) to a unit entered as "GS Lancers" and given the number L 10365 (Medal Index Card attached on other post). Corporal Warr survived the War - in fact he seems to have re-enlisted in the Lancers 3rd February 1919, Regimental No. 15749, so won't be on SDGW.

My interest was purely in the GS Lancers - I still haven't had a suggestion as to who or what they were. I'd guessed "GS" means "General Service", but couldn't guess what it meant in relation to a Lancer regiment.

So I've definitely got a Lancer with an "L" prefix number - if anyone could give me any further information, I'd be grateful. TNA may have something in WO 363/W 269 War Office: Soldiers' Documents, First World War 'Burnt Documents' (Microfilm Copies) Warnock Earnest - Warr Frederick J, but I haven't had time to get up there yet and look it up. Does Ancestry - or any other site - have this sort of stuff?

Regards

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Jeremy

There wasn't a specific regiment called "GS Lancers" or any expansion of these initials. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the six regular Lancer regiments (5th, 9th, 12th, 16th, 17th and 21st) were all treated as one body, the "Corps of Lancers" for recruiting and posting purposes, and shared a common depot. GS would be for General Service, i.e. not specific even to cavalry as a whole.

Ron

[Patrick ODwyer]

L was a prefix for Lancers; D for Dragoons; H for Hussars

Ron is correct on GS. These men went into Reserve Units first as a rule and left at the end of the war. That Lancer number imples enlistment early in the war not as late as 1919 - where did you get that date from? I suspect that is when he left rather than joined. Can you re-post the MIC.

Stephen, I'll try to follow up your post later too. Family commitments.

[Jeremy Churchill]

L was a prefix for Lancers; D for Dragoons; H for Hussars

Ron is correct on GS. These men went into Reserve Units first as a rule and left at the end of the war. That Lancer number imples enlistment early in the war not as late as 1919 - where did you get that date from? I suspect that is when he left rather than joined. Can you re-post the MIC.

Patrick

MIC duly reposted, as requested. But in my original post, I said "According to his son (now dead), Mr Warr joined the Regular Army in 1915, became a Sergeant in the 9th Queens Royal Lancers and survived the War, dying in 1983. A "Roll of Honour" in the village church - listing all those who served during the War (those who died are recorded on a separate marble tablet) says that he served in the 21st Lancers. But they spent the War on the North-West Frontier of India, so Mr Warr was transferred PDQ to a unit going to the Western Front, as you would expect for 1915.

His Medal Index card shows his service in France as commencing on the 1st June 1915 - so he was awarded the 1914/15 Star, the Victory Medal (1914-19) and the British War Medal (1914-1920).

In the top right-hand corner, the card, however, lists first "9Lrs" and then shows his rank as Private (with "Cpl" written in above) and his Regimental No. as GS-11549. The "Cpl" is asterisked, which I now know means that was the rank used on the medal and his initial unit of service in that theatre of the War.

The second line has "GS Lrs" entered under "Corps", no rank and then a Regimental No. of L 10365.

In the remarks box is a handwritten note. I can't read the first one or two words but it looks like "Dis so re-enlist Lrs 3/2/19 No. 15749"

So he enlisted as a Regular and arrived in France on June 1st 1915 in the 9th Lancers, and with a GS-prefix number. He was then transferred to, or simply re-catalogued as serving in, the "GS Lancers" with an L-prefix number. After the War he re-enlisted (if I read that part of the MIC correctly) in an unspecified Lancer unit with yet another number.

If anyone can shed any light on this, I would appreciate it. Are you and Ron saying that this man could have served in any unit at all - not necessarily even a Lancer regiment?

Regards

[Stephen Barker]

Thanks to everyone who replied to this posting. Much appreciated.

Stephen

[Patrick ODwyer]

Stephen

I am not entirely sure what is going on with those numbers as they both appear (in one way or another) to be GS numbers (or perhaps not).

'Discharged to re-enlist' is not uncommon

I promised to do something for you and I will - will just need time - sorry