Pte J Guilfoyle 20395 14th Bn. RWF

[RoyGui]

Hi to all,

I recently discovered my great uncle Joseph, he was killed/died on the 30th of May1916. I believe he was only 16 years old. He is burried in Rue du Bacquerot No.1 Military Cemetry, Laventie. I hope to do a little more research on him.

I would be pleased if anyone has any information on the 14th Bn RWF action in this area.

Thanks

Roy

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[tjec]

Welcome to the Forum, you probably have this already it is the link to his CWGC certificate.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=281673

Somebody will come along shortly with more details on the RWF, I am sure.

Regards,

Norman

[bluesky]

Roy - SDGW shows 20398 Pte. Joseph Guilfoyle as died (as opposed to killed in action or died of wounds) and as the only casualty in 14/RWF on that date. This suggests he probably died as a result of sickness or an accident.

He was born at Clayton-le-Moors, enlisetd at Accrington and resided at Altham.

I hope this helps.

Regards, David

[tjec]

Roy,

His MIC on Ancestry in the remarks column states "Killed 30.5.16.

I would have put the MIC on here, but I have not yet mastered how to make it fit the 100k barrier.

If you PM me your e-mail I will send it to you.

Regards,

Norman

[RoyGui]

Roy,

His MIC on Ancestry in the remarks column states "Killed 30.5.16.

I would have put the MIC on here, but I have not yet mastered how to make it fit the 100k barrier.

If you PM me your e-mail I will send it to you.

Regards,

Norman

Thanks Norman, I'm not sure if I can PM, but my e mail is royguilfoyle at aol dot com.

Roy

[tjec]

E-mail sent.

Regards,

Norman

[PhilB]

He`s unlikely to have died of disease if buried at Laventie?

[Carmania]

He appears on the roll of the officers and men who embarked with the Battalion on 1st December 1915. Against his entry is 'Killed' and his address: 22 Walton Street, Altham Lane, Accrington.

Regards

Aled

[tjec]

Reduced size MIC, nothing on the reverse.

[Jim Clay]

From FreeBMD, this looks a good prospect for his birth registration (Clayton-le-Moors is included in the Blackburn Reg District):

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Births Mar 1898 (>99%)

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Guilfoyle Joseph Blackburn 8e 360

Jim

PS - the 1901 census has a Joseph GILFOYLE (right age, right birth place) living with dad Michael, coal miner, mum Margaret, and baby sister Mary Ann at 1 Davy Street, Accrington.

Edited 11 June , 2008 by Jim Clay

[andrew_jackson]

Roy,

You'll find your great-uncle named on the war memorials at St James Church, Altham, and in Mercer Park, Clayton-le-Moors.

http://www.pals.org.uk/honour/index.htm

All the best,

Andrew

[geraint]

14th RWF was a service battalion for Kitchener's army, formed by the Welsh Executive Committee at llandudno 2 Nov 1914. Though not an official Pal's battalion it was so in all but name. Their biggest battle was at Mametz Wood 10 July 1916, so your man died a few weeks prior to that as the 113 Brigade of the 38th Welsh Division were en route there. They also took part in the Pilkem Ridge attack in July 1917, and were, I think, the battalion who finally took Fusilier Ridge - named after them!

Geraint

[RoyGui]

Thanks for all the help guys, got me really intrigued now. The mis spelling of the surname in the 1901 census had led me a little astray. My great-grandparents were indeed Michael and Margret.

From FreeBMD, this looks a good prospect for his birth registration (Clayton-le-Moors is included in the Blackburn Reg District):

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Births Mar 1898 (>99%)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guilfoyle Joseph Blackburn 8e 360

Jim

PS - the 1901 census has a Joseph GILFOYLE (right age, right birth place) living with dad Michael, coal miner, mum Margaret, and baby sister Mary Ann at 1 Davy Street, Accrington.

GULP !!! a shiver has just run down my spine, I can remember visiting Aunt Mary Ann and Auntie 'Nellie (her younger sister) as a child in the late sixties, they had never married and shared a house in Clayton. My grandad Jim, the youngest died not long after I was born.

Thanks again

Roy

[clive_hughes]

Roy,

the Embarkation Roll previously quoted also has a fair number of men from Lancashire with regimental nos. around that for Pte Guilfoyle, including 20396 Pte S.Griffiths of 4 Caverbridge St., Accrington, and 20397 Pte J.Lynch of 14 Quarry Street, Clayton-le-Moors; but whether this represents a group who were known to each other I'm unable to tell. Having started off as a Caernarfonshire & Anglesey "Pals" battalion it is clear that they eventually filled their ranks from Lancs. and elsewhere.

The brief digest I have of the War Diary of the 14th RWF for May 1916 doesn't show much: on 1 May they relieved 13th RWF in trenches at Laventie, until on 17 May they were relieved in turn by the 14th Welsh Regt. and went into billets at La Gorgue. On 25 May they relieved the 11th S.Wales Borderers in the Moated Grange sector and seem to have stayed there till 8 June, the only action noted being a trench raid on 4 June in which the party of 60 raiders suffered over 50 per cent casualties.

If you are able to search the National Archives site under the heading W.O.95 this should enable you to download the full War Diary for the unit for the period around the time he died, for a flat fee. An original copy is held in the Archives of the University of Wales Bangor, Gwynedd.

LST_164

[RoyGui]

Roy,

the Embarkation Roll previously quoted also has a fair number of men from Lancashire with regimental nos. around that for Pte Guilfoyle, including 20396 Pte S.Griffiths of 4 Caverbridge St., Accrington, and 20397 Pte J.Lynch of 14 Quarry Street, Clayton-le-Moors; but whether this represents a group who were known to each other I'm unable to tell. Having started off as a Caernarfonshire & Anglesey "Pals" battalion it is clear that they eventually filled their ranks from Lancs. and elsewhere.

The brief digest I have of the War Diary of the 14th RWF for May 1916 doesn't show much: on 1 May they relieved 13th RWF in trenches at Laventie, until on 17 May they were relieved in turn by the 14th Welsh Regt. and went into billets at La Gorgue. On 25 May they relieved the 11th S.Wales Borderers in the Moated Grange sector and seem to have stayed there till 8 June, the only action noted being a trench raid on 4 June in which the party of 60 raiders suffered over 50 per cent casualties.

If you are able to search the National Archives site under the heading W.O.95 this should enable you to download the full War Diary for the unit for the period around the time he died, for a flat fee. An original copy is held in the Archives of the University of Wales Bangor, Gwynedd.

LST_164

maybe a silly question ? looking at the RWF burials at Rue de Bacquerot no.1 cemetry there are six others with the same date 30/5/16 but all from the 13th Bn RWF. If they were in the same area Could this be a line of enquiry into how Joseph (14th Bn.) met his end.

Ta

Roy

[clive_hughes]

Being honest, I don't know whether the deaths are linked. The 13th (North Wales "Pals") Battalion RWF was in the same Brigade (113th), but without access to the full 13th Battalion, Brigade or 38th Divisional War Diaries I can't tell whether they were in the line, in support, in reserve or even detached for some reason. A single unlucky shell or mortar could have accounted for all six in the "normal" process of trench warfare, without that making much of a splash in the official documents above.

The 14th RWF's war diary can be seen in one form or another at the Regimental Museum in Caernarfon Castle; in the Archives Department at the University College Bangor; and in the WO 95 series of War Diaries at the National Archives, Kew (latter copy cam be downloaded online for about £8.50 I think).

However, the main source for determining Joseph's cause of death will surely be his official Death Certificate which can be ordered online from the General Register Office for about £7. Their website is www.gro.gov.uk , but you will need to supply the relevant Register volume & page number etc relating to Army deaths abroad so as to order his specific certificate.

Some of the pals on the Forum offer to look this up, & if you put a posting on his thread that should get you the exact reference to quote; try under the >Look-up, photo and Document requests section on this Forum.

Beyond that, your best option may be to search the local newspaper files for the area he came from, in the hope that in the weeks following his death there is an obituary or similar piece which may give more details. On occasion quite lengthy and detailled stories emerge, based on a soldier's comrades letters, as well as some personal history supplied by the family etc. No guarantee of this, but definitely worth trying.

The local studies/reference library or Record Office for the area can guide you as to which newspapers covered his part of the world at that time, and where originals or copies can be consulted.

Hope this might help,

LST_164