12th Bn HLI

[unitedsound]

Does anyone know where 12th Bn HLI were in Belgium between 20-25th July 1917?

Two men were buried in Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery around that date.

TIA

David

[unitedsound]

Perhaps they were at Passchendaele?

I'm surprised that the HLI in general haven't got much in the way of books on Ebay or Amazon.

Can anyone help?

[truthergw]

No mention of 12th HLI at Menin or Passchendaele in the OH. 1/9 and 17 only.

[unitedsound]

Thanks Tom.

Perhaps Gheluvelt anyone?

[truthergw]

I had another poke around. They were part of 9th Div which was out of line until 25th July. Billeted for training at Ruellecourt.

[unitedsound]

Thanks Tom

I've found 32 deaths between 21 & 31/7/1917. Mostly KIA and a couple DOW.

I don't know if cemeteries provide any clues but here goes anyway:-

Ypres Reservoir - 3

Lijssenthoej - 2

Potijze Chateau - 1

Aeroplane - 1

Brandhoek - 1

Menin Road South - 1

Vlamentinghe - 1

The other 22 are on the Menin Gate.

[truthergw]

They were mentioned in Arras but that was no later than May, and was an action at Roeux. DOW can of course be any time after being wounded but I do not see how they would end up at Lijssenthoek cemetery. I wonder if the had been attached to some other unit. The battalion was being trained to fight at the salient. I suppose they could have been an advance guard.

[unitedsound]

Thanks again Tom.

Three of them were aged 37, 41 and 42 respectively.

I don't know anything about WW1, but that struck me as being well beyond average age.

Hope this doesn't remain a mystery.

[unitedsound]

I have just examind David Meikle's MIC, this is the detail :-

CORPS *R Scots

RANK Sgt

Regtl # 257

and beneath that another entry.....

CORPS HLI

RANK left blank

Regtl # 43461

MEDAL---- ROLL----- -PAGE

Victory-- d/104 B19-- 1682

British -------ditto---------

TWFM * HLI/TFM 1

There is no indication on the card that he DOW in Belgium, but his Death Certificate says this.

The CWGC says he is buried in Lijssenthoej Cemetery 12 km west of YPRES.

Does the above throw any further light on his background?

[Heid the Ba]

I'll check the divisional history tonight, though I suspect it won't tell me anything that hasn't been posted above.

[unitedsound]

Thanks Heid the Ba'

[Heid the Ba]

Truthergw has probably looked at it already, but I'll check.

[truthergw]

Lijssenthoek was 2nd largest cemetery in the Salient, that is the area around Ypres. The French established a Casualty Clearing Station here and it was carried on by the British. Casualties from all over the Salient might end up here but not from as far away as Arras area. I think that they were in the Ypres area ahead of their comrades for some reason, training or advance guard perhaps, when they were wounded. Taken to Remi Farm CCS and buried nearby in the adjoining cemetery beside 10,786 other men. Do you know the battalion of Royal Scots? Battalions of the same Regiment were sent to different divisions. 12 HLI were 9th Div. That means originally Kitcheners men in K1. The first of the New Armies formed in early months of 1914. A great book on this for the non military buff is Ian Hay's " The First Hundred Thousand".

[unitedsound]

Truthergw

I'm getting confused by some of these Regiments.

Are Royal Scots and HLI one and the same?

Looking at the MIC, I get the impression that he was with Royal Scots, then with HLI (12th Bn). What do you think?

I wish I could get hold of his Army Service Record now but I don't think they'll give me it, even though David Meikle was my Grandfather's brother, and it looks like he never married.

Thanks for info regards cemetery and CCS, those are good leads.

I can see me buying your recommend as I'm getting drawn into the detail of WW1.

[stoj22]

Battalions of the same Regiment were sent to different divisions. 12 HLI were 9th Div.

I thought 12th H.L.I. were 15th Division?

[Heid the Ba]

Looks like you are right Ponte Fractus, I took Tom's word for it. I have that divisional history as well, so I can still check.

12th Royal Scots were 9th Div.

unitedsound: HLI and Royal Scots are two separate regiments. It looks like he was in the Royal Scot and then HLI, as you say.

[stoj22]

The 10/11th HLI Diary says on 25 July 1917.............." We were to have relieved 12th HLI in the front line but the move was cancelled and we remained in Bde Support in H.16.c.

It doesn't say which part of the front line the 12 HLI were holding but H.16.c is near Vlamertinghe, outside Ypres.

.......hopefully Heid can pin 'em down?

Steve.

[truthergw]

Sorry, my eye jumped a line. I will parade at dawn tomorrow and provide my own blindfold. Two battalions of HLI transferred to 15th Div but the 12th HLI was not one of them. That would explain why I could not find them. They were at Arras with 15th Div.

United, Regiments consisted of several battalions. More than a dozen in many cases. Royal Scots are a different regiment to Highland Light Infantry. As I said, different battalions of the same regiment were posted to different divisions. The Scottish divisions were 9th, 15th who were Kitchener men, 51st who were TF, that is originally part time soldiers who agreed to serve overseas. Similar to the TA nowadays in many respects. Scottish soldiers also served in other divisions. Normally the army moved divisions about. That was their building block for preparing for a battle and such. There are divisional histories and I have the 9th but not the 15th so I can track the HLI battalions which were in the 9th.

[Adam Harland]

12th HLI,

Was at Erie Camp on 19th and 20th July 1917 (H16 X17)

On 22nd Battn moves onto the 10SR part of the front (H2 at Ecole). prior to a 2 company raid

24th July, daylight raid on the german lines as afr as the Iberia Reserve trench. The adjoining divisions ( 8th and 55?th) to carry out similar raids or simulate them.

2 Officers and 77 ORs of the 90 Fus regt were captured ( 12 wounded)

British losses were 1 OR KIA, 3 MIA and 17 WIA, mostly slight. All caualties occurred between the enemy front line and the final objective.

The whole thing took 38 minutes

The Battn remained in the front line until 28/7, returning on night of 31st 'Operations commence on a large scale'

Hope that helps

Adam

[unitedsound]

Thanks for finding this info Adam

Unfortunately I am not conversant with the terms below.

"Was at Erie Camp on 19th and 20th July 1917

(H16 X17)

On 22nd Battn moves onto the

10SR part of the front (H2 at Ecole).

prior to a 2 company raid

24th July, daylight raid on the german lines as afr as

the Iberia Reserve trench.

"

Could you please identify where these locations are on a map, or link me to this terminology.

Will be off forum for 7 days now. Thanks to everyone on thread for input.

[Heid the Ba]

15th Divisional history says essentially the same as Adam's post.