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Remembered Today:

What uniform / caps are these two guys wearing?


mazzie74
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Hi,

I have posted a family photo taken in Deal, Kent in 1917 of my Great-Great Grandfather (William Edward Harris (1867-1932) - back row 2nd from left), and some of his family.

His son is the gentleman seated in the middle of the picture who was in the RAMC.

I am assuming that the 3 fellows dressed in Scottish uniforms were perhaps billeted with the Harris's.

The person that I am attempting to identify is the gentleman back row - far right.

William Edward Harris had an elder brother called Patrick John Harris (born 1865), but nobody in the family has ever seen a photo of him.

I was jumping to the conclusion that this could possibly be him, and maybe he was in the Royal Defence Corps (or Home Guard).

Can anybody identify what cap, or uniform he is wearing?

I have looked on the medal indexes, but can't seem to find a Patrick Harris that seems to match.

Does anybody also know the uniform of the gentleman centre back? I would assume that the lady to the right (Clara Eliza Harris) is wearing his cap.

Thanks in advance,

Darin, Newcastle, England.

post-30969-1211793218.jpg

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Hi - Interesting photo. The old fellow at the right, and the younger bloke seated at the front left are both wearing what appear to be green glengarry caps with, I think, Cameronians (star in thistle wreath) cap badges. Their tunics are standard 1902 pattern khaki (the seated guy with standard highland cut - probably actually the war time economy version with no box pleats). The old guy standing appears to be wearing a 1914 pattern leather belt (like that of the other standing Scot, far left), which suggests both belonged to Service Battalions (i.e. Kitchener's Army) battalions of their respective regiments. The big guy standing centre is a bit more problematic. Nothing unusual about his tunic (which has medal ribbons), but his cap badge is interesting...difficult to determine without a close up? The Scot (centre) certainly has RAMC Mdical Orderly sleeve badges, and 1914 pattern belt. Interesting that he is wearing a Glengarry - perhaps it's not his?

Hope any of this helps...

Peter

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Hi Peter,

Thanks for your response,

Now that you have explained it, I think I know what they have done for the photo.

I will attach another photo of the guy in the RAMC uniform (Patrick jr). He is on the right of the photo. If you notice his cap!

I think that on the photo in my first message, Clara has taken his cap (from the RAMC), and the guy centre back has given his cap to the guy in the centre!

Confusing.

So does that then mean that apart from Patrick (centre) all of the other fellows in military uniform are all attached to Scottish regiments?

So the elderly gentleman may not be William's brother after all.

Thanks again,

Darin.

post-30969-1211799513.jpg

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I think that on the photo in my first message, Clara has taken his cap (from the RAMC), and the guy centre back has given his cap to the guy in the centre!

Confusing.

So does that then mean that apart from Patrick (centre) all of the other fellows in military uniform are all attached to Scottish regiments?

So the elderly gentleman may not be William's brother after all.

I would go along with the exchange of caps theory, but I just raise the possibility that the Jocks were Gordons (Stags head within wreath- Bydand!)

Ian

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The man in the back row in post 3 appears to be in the RMLI (Royal Marine Light Infantry) which ties in nicely with the photograph being taken in Deal.

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I would go along with the exchange of caps theory, but I just raise the possibility that the Jocks were Gordons (Stags head within wreath- Bydand!)

Ian

I know I have a tendency to see them where they don't exist but in this respect I wiould agree with Ian - they look ike Gordons to me (esp sitting front right -as we look-with the undiced /all black glengarry)

The older highlander behind him appears to have a simplified patern tunic on (no pocket pleats) which doesn't really help with anything but is consistent with date of post 1914.

Is it my eyes or does the capless chap in the middle have medal ribbon(s) on?

Chris

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The man in the back row in post 3 appears to be in the RMLI (Royal Marine Light Infantry) which ties in nicely with the photograph being taken in Deal.

Hi,

RE: 2nd photo

It is very intereting that you mention the gentleman at the back being part of the Royal Marine Light Infantry, as I know Patrick George Harris' (ie the chap in the RAMC) elder brother (William Thomas Harris) was in this regiment!

I wonder if it's him!

By any chance, the chap on the left isn't part of the "Royal West Kent Regt" is he?

As their younger brother - Robert James Harris was in this battalion, and he was killed at the Somme in 1916 aged 19.

I only thought it was Patrick on this photo with 2 unknown gentlemen, but you have roused my curiosity mentioning the RMLI.

Thanks,

Darin.

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I would go with the prancing horse Invicta symbol of the RWK for the lefthand chap.

Hi,

Thank you so much for that.

Am I glad I decided to use that photo of Patrick to post! I never even gave it a second thought that that could be his 2 brothers on that photo.

It's too much of a coincidence not to be them.

I only have a couple of photo's of Robert as a young child, and a very poor one of him from the newspaper mentioning his death, and some photo's of William as an old man.

I never knew I had a photo of them all along!

Thanks to everyone.

Darin.

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I think these might be the respective MICs...

in case you do not have them.

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I think these might be the respective MICs...

in case you do not have them.

Hi,

Thanks for that.

Patrick's is correct, but Robert's no. was 10688. (sometimes noted as G/10688).

Thanks,

Darin.

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Then it looks like he was also in the MGC...

Description Medal card of Harris, Robert J

Corps Regiment No Rank

Machine Gun Corps 15887 Private

Royal West Kent Regiment G/10688 Private

Date 1914-1920

Catalogue reference WO 372/9

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Gave the pic a a quick clean up.

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There are other clues which suggest Gordon's too (at least for the two in kilts).

It appears that the Garter flashes have the single bell unique to the Gordons and the man on the right just might have black Gaiter buttons.

Joe Sweeney

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I would go with the prancing horse Invicta symbol of the RWK for the lefthand chap.

Ian

Hi again,

This is the poor photo of Robert that I had. I am 100% convinced that it is him in my photo (seated left on 3rd message posting).

What cap badge will he have on this photo, as it is definitely diiferent to the previous photo?

I know it is very hard to make out. Will this be the cap badge when he was attached to the Machine Gun Company?

Thanks,

Darin.

post-30969-1211817610.jpg

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And it bears out the sequence of his service - MGC first then RWK (check out Julian's avatar for the badges!)

He looks a lot younger/less war weary in the first pic.

Ian

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And it bears out the sequence of his service - MGC first then RWK (check out Julian's avatar for the badges!)

He looks a lot younger/less war weary in the first pic.

Ian

Brilliant!

You guys are excellent.

One last question, (and I don't know if I should be posting it on this board but here goes) -

You have given me the mic's for Patrick and Robert.

Would it be like looking for a needle in a haystack to try and find William Thomas Harris' mic (Royal Marine Light Infantry), seeing as I haven't got a clue what his service number was?

I have looked myself, but can't seem to find one matching to that regiment. Or with it being a marine regiment, would his mic not be included?

Thanks in advance,

Darin.

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I had a look too without any success.

Had a go at colouring this pic.

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RMLI Medal Cards are not part of the main medal cards online - which is why you can't find him. Technically they were part of the Navy hence no Army medal card.

A specific post in Ships and Navies with RMLI in the header should attract the experts to help you.

Steve.

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RMLI Medal Cards are not part of the main medal cards online - which is why you can't find him. Technically they were part of the Navy hence no Army medal card

A specific post in Ships and Navies with RMLI in the header should attract the experts to help you.

Steve.

Steve - I suspected something like this, however a search on ancestry MICs using just "Royal Marine Light Infantry" produces 379 records and the National Archive 640 with the same search term so some of them must be included. Any idea what the criteria for inclusion/exclusion might be?

Chris

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