Who Remembers the Survivors.

[WASMAN]

My father like many men of his generation served in WW2, he was at Anzio and Monte Casinno, at the time he was called a D-Day dodger, he was wounded, saw many mates killed and lost the best part of his youth, now in his 80th year who remembers him, it seems a harsh thing to say, but is it easy to remember the men who fell and hard to remember the ones who made it back.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

By being a member of this forum you, me and everyone else remember people like your father everyday. Although this forum is dedicated to WW1, you cannot help but remember everyone who has donned a uniform and served their country.

I am very sure there are members of this forum who are veterans, who have personal experiences and don't need reminding.

Ian

[Tim1915]

It is true what you say.

It is easier to remember the dead rather than the living, the memorials and graves are always there at the same place, sometimes close to the original battlefield.

Those who served, faced the same dangers and privations, but survived are not so recognisable, apart from those rare times when medals are displayed on their chests.

That being said, I shall always be grateful to your father's generation who made those sacrifices and while I have my faculties I shall not forget the debt that is owed them.

I shall also do my best to pass on this on to my son and daughter and so down through the generations.

I have also noticed in the last year or so, that people are taking more notice of Remembrance Day, there does seem to be more respect, I sincerely hope this is the case.

When you next see your father, please pass on my respects and grateful thanks.

Tim

[BeppoSapone]

My father like many men of his generation served in WW2, he was at Anzio and Monte Casinno, at the time he was called a D-Day dodger, he was wounded, saw many mates killed and lost the best part of his youth, now in his 80th year who remembers him, it seems a harsh thing to say, but is it easy to remember the men who fell and hard to remember the ones who made it back.

Take a look at Paul Reeds new site for D.Day, not yet complete, but well worth a look. Also, his other site.

Search in this forum for Paul's father, "Bert Reed", and you will find a link to Bert writing about his experiences in Italy in WW2, Anzio in particular. IIRC this is part of a BBC scheme which allows veterans to tell their stories, so you can find quite a bit on some of the men who came back.

Maybe your father will be interested in telling of his experiences in Italy?

Which unit was he with?

[Paul Reed]

As Tony says, my Dad was in Italy. He is still going strong at nearly 85. He wrote some of his experiences of Anzio for the BBC, and I am getting him to do more on the Gothic Line and River Po for my own WW2 website.

I think you make an interesting point; I believe it was in the East End in the 20s some out of work WW1 vets had a near riot when they protested about how so much attention was heaped on the dead while those that came back lived in poverty.

In recent years, just like I did twenty years ago with WW1, I have begun to track down WW2 vets and speak to them before they all slip away; last year I had the honour to take one back to Italy; several have kindly contributed to my WW2 site. Their stories are at:

http://battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/ww2_veteran_pages.htm

Those of you here who are only interested in the Great War should profit from past experiences; twenty years ago only a handful of people were speaking to vets and making them feel special. Don't let that happen with WW2.

[Dragon]

Those of you here who are only interested in the Great War should profit from past experiences; twenty years ago only a handful of people were speaking to vets and making them feel special. Don't let that happen with WW2.

I agree completely. I think that one should also talk to the people who remained at home, such as women, and remember the effects on their lives and emotions.

So far, I have done two projects. One I’ve mentioned before, which is to make a CD with commentary using my father’s photos from Iraq, where he was a very young member of the RAF in the last war. During the recent Iraqi conflict, I distributed my CD among Iraqi ex-pats and I believe that it was very moving for them to see photos of their country, with the buildings undamaged. I am going to add letters as and when they come to light.

Secondly, I have created a CD for my young nephews. In appropriate language and font for their age, it tells the stories of my father’s and grandfather’s wars, with hyperlinks to lots of photos, documents, letters (with transcriptions), newspaper cuttings about them, personal mementoes and so on. This has already come in useful for the projects which schools seem to set on the wars or family history, as the material can simply be printed out or transferred and I can add to it.

I’m hoping to do one on my mum’s memories too, living on a farm in the last war and I plan to draw on accounts from within the connected family (who are all older than I am – I’m the late ‘baby’ of a late ‘baby’ !) to supplement what she remembers. Especially the interesting and unique bits, like finding a young German pilot sheltering in their hay one Sunday evening and how flummoxed the local policeman was. I understand that the frightened young pilot was treated with great kindness and that he did not have horns or cloven feet.

Ironic that what used to be seen just as, oh, Gwyn at it again asking her boring endless questions, eventually acquires a value when the people themselves are no longer here to be asked and descendants realise that there is so much they would like to have known but didn’t bother with finding out while they could.

Gwyn

[pat]

I agree completely. The last chapter of Martin Middlebrook's "First Day of the Somme" goes into heartbreaking detail about how badly these men were treated after the war. Many, especially those who were wounded, never got steady jobs again. Those who did get back into their old jobs found younger men who'd stayed at home had been promoted over their heads.

I feel especially sad about two groups: POWs, who faced a social stigma on top of all their other problems; and those who died slowly and painfully of their wounds in the years that followed. Even men like my two grandfathers, who lived to be 70 and 80 respectively, were affected by the war until they died.

Pat

[jemimajane]

Although my mother (now 81) wasn't in the forces in WW2, over the years I have encouraged her to write about her WW2 experiences - ( she was a factory worker and the place where she worked was hit by a V1 rocket) so it will not be forgotten. She has done the same for her reminiscences of the family - including what she learnt from her older relatives about their WW1 service.

It seems that so much more is being done about remembering WW2. People's memories are so essential to this and I find it encoraging that something will be done. With family history/genealogy, people concentrate so much on "how far back can we trace the family" - and lose out on the more recent history.

[Desmond7]

My Uncle, Jimmy Blackadder (inevitably called Paddy) was a pre-war territorial with a Royal Artillery unit based here in Ballymena. They went off to the Western Desert etc where they served in an anti-aircraft role. Jimmy was eithr drafted into or volunteered for, service with an infantry unit. He joined Sherwood Foresters and as wounded and captured at Anzio.

I remember him coming to our house when I was quite young. He died about 14 years ago. My father told me he was either a bren-gunner or a number two on the gun.

Lest we forget those who came back.

[john w.]

Its very strange, but in doing all this research I felt the same way. You can get the information you need on those, but they are dead.... not the lving and what they did when they came home. Far harder.. yes you can get their records, but they are not online and readily available...

My thoughts exactly on this thread and one that I share.

I recently finished the Forgotten Voices CD series and still heard the faltering voice of the comrade who lost his mate... he felt that loss it was personal. Generations later we feel it less and a site like this will help in its own way to keep the memory for all who fought in all wars

John

[Broznitsky]

I have created a CD for my young nephews. In appropriate language and font for their age, it tells the stories of my father’s and grandfather’s wars, with hyperlinks to lots of photos, documents, letters (with transcriptions), newspaper cuttings about them, personal mementoes and so on. This has already come in useful for the projects which schools seem to set on the wars or family history, as the material can simply be printed out or transferred and I can add to it.

Great idea, Gwyn; can you give us (or me privately) some advice, tips and tricks on how you accomplished this, the software you used, etc.

Peter in Vancouver

[Ed Matthews]

Just to add to the above. My great-grandfather served with the 11th DLI during the Great War and was badly burnt during a German 'liquid fire' attack whilst repairing/digging trenches (they were divisional pioneers). According to my grandmother, he lay out in No-Mans Land for two days before being brought in. He spent over a year in Netley hospital, having the ends of his feet amputated and the burns that covered his head and body treated, before being discharged in 1917. Nevertheless, he continued to work in the Steelworks at Hartlepool during the 1920's - 30's, stuffing the ends of his steel capped boots with newspaper to make them fit. Throughout his life he suffered in silence from his injuries, later having both legs amputated and ultimately succumbing to his wounds over fifty years later.

No doubt similar stories can be recounted throughout the whole breadth of the country and, to reiterate what many of you have already stated, it is important to remember those who returned but were either physically or mentally scarred by their experiences.

[ianw]

A few years ago I gave an address at my mother's funeral. She was the last of her generation. I had 4 pairs of aunts and uncles in addition to my parents who fought the war against Nazism and brought up their families during and after the war in times of austerity. Fortunately the family lost no one in WW2 ,in contrast to WW1. At the funeral I reminded the congregation - and myself- what a quietly magnificent group of people they were. Many people thanked me for the reminder after the service. As I type this , I miss them all and feel my loss greatly.

I hope to go to France in June to take advantage of a last chance to thank the men and women who fought that great fight. Many people do not take them for granted and the 60th D-day celebrations will assist us all to accord them the respect they richly deserve.

[Andy]

I tread on thin ice when I talk to my father about his WW2 service. I get so far, then he changes the subject. He was a gunner in tanks, serving with the Derbyshire Yeomanry.

I know he saw action in Africa and Italy, a couple of his mates died, one being buried in Lybia and one at Casino. When I showed him the CWGC printouts for these men he cried, bless him...He said he still gets feelings of guilt for coming home without a scratch.

Recently I watched a programme about Sherman tanks. It showed the gunners position, and it had two buttons on the floor. I knew one fired the main gun. Dad told me with relish that the other button was for his machine gun...MY Dad! Firing a machine gun! He's the quietest, well manered man I know, so smart he even has creases in his pajamas (wears a tie in bed as well)

On one of my weekly visits he pulled me to one side and gave me a box, in it were his medals. I will treasure them forever....

Andy Fitton

[ianw]

Andy,

That survivors guilt will never go away. I remember a programme with a WW1 vet whose 2 pals were killed by a sheel while he escaped without a scratch. He still thought he was a fraud in life due to his survival. My those guys suffered so much -a lot of psychological trauma. And no one probably ever thanked them.

[Dragon]

Hello Peter

I didn’t use anything complicated. I scanned all the documents and photos and saved them as .jpegs and a couple of other formats (to see which worked best). Then I wrote the story in Word. I inserted hyperlinks to the pictures and letters at the relevant points in the story (using the hyperlink option when you right click the rodent).

After that I ran through the whole thing and checked the links, and where a document or picture didn’t load quickly or properly, I tried out the other formats I’d saved it in until I was satisfied. Then I burned the Word doc. onto a CD in the normal way.

I can amend or develop the Word doc. very simply and just post it on a new CD to mail off to my nephews.

When I made the Iraq CD, I simply scanned the images and saved them as .pdf because it was going out to third parties and I wanted to make a little effort to preserve my family photos intact. I wrote the text in Word again and inserted a special request that if people wanted to use the pictures, they should email me and I would send a proper copy. We just used a contact network to distribute them and I wasn’t selling the CDs, just doing my bit for expatriate people who were in a very testing situation emotionally. Sort of saying we cared what was happening to their loved homeland, I suppose and we knew it was hard for them to be here while there was a war on.

Gwyn

PS If you meant how did I get the photos etc in the first place, I have described in on my website in There's a book coming! with some of my pictures inserted there. My Webpage

[WASMAN]

My father has never been one to talk much about what happened during his service in Italy, I sometimes try to pick his brains, but you can tell not to push him on the subject, he served with the North Staffs and fought along side the American 5th Army 1st division . He once told me he has never eaten oranges since being in Italy as he saw a good mate blown up by a booby-trap whilst picking oranges. He fought his way up Italy to Rome, he say's Rome is a beautiful city and there was never a shot fired in there, ( I don't know if that is true or not ).

He still has his army pay book and other paper items that tell of the endless injections he had for all kinds of possible diseases, It shows he passed his physical training for an A1 soldier, Its hard to believe looking at this frail old man that he was once a young soldier in Italy lugging a bren gun about, he has always been a strong, regimented man and it gets harder to see him getting older and weaker.

He gave me his medals when I was 18 and told me to pass them on to my son, when I think back to what I was doing at 18 ( just started work and found out about women ) and what my Father was doing at 18 it makes me think that the sacrifice his generation made WAS worth while, I started this topic by asking who remembers the survivors and was it hard to remember them, well I can say that it is hard to watch them grow old but I think we all remember the survivors but don't always show our thanks or show our respect for what they did.

pte 14562454 John Alfred Sinnott ( MY HERO )

[brindlerp]

Can anyone recommend a World War 2 site comparable with this excellent site?

regards

Richard