3rd Skinner's Horse

[Messina1915]

Could anybody tell me what this unit was doing in 1917 and 1918, or point me in the right direction?

I know they were in France early in the war, but would be interested to know whether or not they were still there when the lad I am interested in joined them as a junior officer in early 1917, and what they did for the rest of the war.

Cheers,

Carole.

[Matthew B.]

Could anybody tell me what this unit was doing in 1917 and 1918, or point me in the right direction?

I know they were in France early in the war, but would be interested to know whether or not they were still there when the lad I am interested in joined them as a junior officer in early 1917, and what they did for the rest of the war.

Cheers,

Carole.

Carole, 3rd Skinner's Horse landed in France in December 1914 bur returned to India in June/July 1916, concentating at Rawalpindi on the 6th August 1916. In August 1917 themy moved to Jullundur and then Loralai in October. A number of officers & men were shortly aftrerwards defafted to units in Mesopotamia. In early 1918 trouble broke out in the Marri country and in Feb 1918 a deatchment was sent. The regiment was still at Loralai in May 1919 when the 3rd Afghan War broke out.

I have extracted this from the regimental history, which I have a copy of. I also have a number of Indian Army list which cover the period - if you gave me the name I could have a look to see if I could find anything out.

Regards,

Matthew

[Messina1915]

Hi Matthew, many thanks.

The full name of the lad I'm interested in is Inigo Brassey Freeman-Thomas (probably the most distinctive name I've ever heard, lol ).

I know from the London Gazette that he was attached to the 3rd Skinner's Horse as a second lieutenant on 5 February 1917 and was promoted to full lieutenant on 24 June 1917.

Anything you can add would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Carole.

[Matthew B.]

Hi Matthew, many thanks.

The full name of the lad I'm interested in is Inigo Brassey Freeman-Thomas (probably the most distinctive name I've ever heard, lol ).

I know from the London Gazette that he was attached to the 3rd Skinner's Horse as a second lieutenant on 5 February 1917 and was promoted to full lieutenant on 24 June 1917.

Anything you can add would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Carole.

Carole,

I Will try and stick to him time in the Indian Army and just after.

Born 25/7/1899

Can not trace his earlier his earlier appointment to the Indian Army Reserve of officers but he resigned that on admission to the Cadet College at Quetta 20th July 1916 (just shy of his 17th birthday)

He was commisioned on to the Unattached List, Indian Army 30th January 1917 and attached to the 3rd Skinners Horse 4th February 1917

Promoted Lieutenant 24th June 1917

He is listed in the October 1918 Indian Army List as being on leave, outside of India on medical certificate for 6th months. I don't have access to an earlier IAL to see when he went sick. He stays on sick until his retirement

Appointed an Aide de Camp on someones personal staff in India 6th March 1919 until 11th November 1920 (thought I said he was on sick leave before September 1918 so how he did this I do not know)

Transferred from his regiment to the temporary non-effective list on the 24st April 1920

Promoted Captain 24th June 1920

He reitred from the Indian Army due to ill-health 23rd November 1920

He later appaers as a Captain in the 98th (Surry & Sussex) Field Brigade, Royal Artillery TA as a Captain, 1st September 1927. He was immediatly appointed to the command of 227th Field Artillery Battery Signal Section, Royal Signals from then until 10th December 1930

He suceeded his father as 2nd Marquess Willingdon in 1941 and died in March 1979.

Faced with that I wonder how much of his regiment he saw - attached in Feb 1917 and on the sick list and away from the regiment no later than September 1918.

Just to add confusion, if you search the National Archive you will find a medal Index card for him - not for his IA time but as an 'Apprentice' on th Hospital Ship 'Sunbeam'! To download it will cost 3.50 . Another avenue to explore.

Hope that helps,

Regards,

Matthew

[Messina1915]

Hi Matthew

Interesting! For your information, "Sunbeam" was a yacht belonging to Inigo's grandfather, Lord Brassey - so it is not as odd as it at first seems. But clearly, as you said, he was not with his regiment very much, and unlikely to have had much in the way of excitement - unless he was still with his regiment at the time of the trouble in Marri country and he was part of the detachement sent - but there is no way of knowing this.

Unless his illness was very serious, it is likely his parents would have been relieved that he was at home, and that his regiment was not at the front (and therefore he was not likely to see action when he returned, they couldn't have known when the war was going to end), as he was their only surviving child, his elder brother having been reported missing earlier in the war (see my signature). A bit off topic, and speculation I know, but just what I thought reading your information.

Cheers,

Carole.

[Matthew B.]

Hi Matthew

Interesting! For your information, "Sunbeam" was a yacht belonging to Inigo's grandfather, Lord Brassey - so it is not as odd as it at first seems. But clearly, as you said, he was not with his regiment very much, and unlikely to have had much in the way of excitement - unless he was still with his regiment at the time of the trouble in Marri country and he was part of the detachement sent - but there is no way of knowing this.

Unless his illness was very serious, it is likely his parents would have been relieved that he was at home, and that his regiment was not at the front (and therefore he was not likely to see action when he returned, they couldn't have known when the war was going to end), as he was their only surviving child, his elder brother having been reported missing earlier in the war (see my signature). A bit off topic, and speculation I know, but just what I thought reading your information.

Cheers,

Carole.

Carole,

Glad I could help. I am almost certain he did not go on the Marri campaign - I'll have to recheck the the history but I am pretty sure he is not listed for that. His illness must have been long term serious - remember he was eventualy retired due to ill-health and was sent outside of India on medical certificate for a long time. He must have recovered sufiiciently well to get back in the TA & later the RAFVR - or more likely had some strings pulled.

Regards,

Matthew

[Messina1915]

Matthew,

Given that he lived to 1979, I'd imagine that his illness must have have been debilitating rather than life-threatening - either that or he had a very good doctor.

I think you may be right about strings being pulled, lol

Cheers,

Carole.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

I understand that the Indian Army service records are now at the British Library. Are these details from those records Matthew? Otherwise that's another avenue for you Carole.

[Matthew B.]

I understand that the Indian Army service records are now at the British Library. Are these details from those records Matthew? Otherwise that's another avenue for you Carole.

The details I have posted are a combination of the Quarterly Indian Army List, the regimental history and the London Gazette in the main.

I have spent a fair amount of time with the records at the BL - they sit in the Asia & Pacific collection at the British Library. I have to say to Carole I would not view this as a viable option for her - now I shall say why.

Unlike the records held at the PRO, the records at the BL are only a fraction of whet there should be. There is a very good reason for this. It was the policy for a very long time that on retirement of a regular IA officer to give then their service record when they did retire, and in the case of officers died in service the papers were sent on to the family as a rememberence. Thay is why if you are researching a regular IA officer of the period say 1900 - 1930 they papers will not be there.

After 1930 you get a selection of papers but not the full lot - these seem to be a mixed bag but my feeling is that they happened to be retained for pensions purposes. Again, its hit and miss and more misses then hits.

As to chaps with temporary WW1 IA comissions I have never come across any papers at all.

For those comissioned into the Indian Army Reserve of Officers I have had more luck, but again I suspect incomplete. The Army Department in India printed a register, for internal use I guess, of officers commissioned into the IARO. This only records basic details - name, unit, when comissioned, etc but sometimes includes where educated and civillian jobs and languages spoken - but again its patchy. What I have also found is applications to join the IARO (these were obviously the sucessful ones) but this can be very variable again - sometimes just three official letters saying you have been comissioned and giving no personal detail. On other occasions, sometimes the application is present listing things like education and, if serving, a note of miltary services to date. I have not found any service papers for these officers after joining the IARO.

Hope that helps,

Matthew

[Messina1915]

Hi Matthew

Many thanks for saving me a wild goose chase

Cheers,

Carole.

[KevinBattle]

This is sooo old, but there is another "string puller - or two - being that Inigo Freeman-Thomas was Lord Willingdon's only remaining son, who was the Governor of Bombay and his mother was the even more indefatigable Marie Brassey. That's where I link in, as the Brassey's huge chateau at Normanhurst Court was near where I live.

Lord Willingdon was also George V's tennis partner, so no one was going to act against their wishes.

 

There were other aspects; they founded a nospital in Bombay (now Mumbai) which was named "The Gerard Freeman-Thomas War Hospital, staffed by Australian nurses in 1916.
His mother, also had two hospitals in India named for her - The Lady Willingdon Hospital in Lahore, Pakistan, and The Lady Willingdon Hospital in Manali, Himachal Pradesh. Marie Adelaide Freeman-Thomas, Marchioness of Willingdon, GBE, CI, DStJ (née Brassey; 24 March 1875 – 30 January 1960) was a daughter of Thomas Brassey, 1st Earl Brassey. On 20 July 1892, she married Freeman Freeman-Thomas, 1st Marquess of Willingdon (12 September 1866 – 12 August 1941), the future Governor General of Canada and Viceroy of India. They had two sons, Lieutenant Gerard Frederick Freeman-Thomas (3 May 1893 – 14 September 1914), killed, aged 21, in the First World War, and Inigo Brassey Freeman-Thomas, 2nd Marquess of Willingdon (25 July 1899 – 19 March 1979). 

 

All water under the bridge now.....