Ship Identification

4 May , 2008

This excellent photograph from Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Leslie_Drewry - Illustrates two potential VC Winners - Drewry left and Malleson centre on a picnic on Imbros prior to their VC action.

Apart from the VC significance can anybody advise the identification of the liner in the background?

Tony

4 May , 2008

Tony,

Off the top of my head, HMHS Brittanic.

Regards Charles

4 May , 2008

Tony,

If that is Drewry and Malleson, with Brittania in the background (Commisioned 12/12/1915) they would already have the VC's. Wasnt Drewry send home with a head wound?

Just a thought.

Regards Charles

4 May , 2008

Could be the AQUITANIA or MAURITANIA. Both saw service in the Eastern Med. during the Dardanelles campaign.

4 May , 2008

Charles & ionia

Thanks for your comments.

CHARLES - On the basis that Drewry sustained a head wound, how serious I don't know, but he shows no signs of such an injury in the photograph.

I also have to go along with 'ionia's' suggestion of Aquitania or Mauritania as I would have thought Britannic would have arrived in the region in full Hospital Ship livery.

Cheers

Tony

4 May , 2008

From Ocean-Liners.com:

Aquitania

On 18 June 1915 it was again requisitioned by the Government, this time to serve as a troopship and assist in the Gallpoli campaign. On 25 June it left Liverpool with a full complement of over 5,000 troops on board. After three voyages as a troop transport it was then converted into a hospital ship and served this role during December 1915 and January 1916.

On 10 April 1916 it was de-commissioned from Government service and was reconditioned by Harland & Wolff in order to return to Cunard service. When this was almost complete the Government was forced to requisition the Aquitania once again to serve as a hospital ship in November 1916. The ship served in the Mediterranean for the rest of the year and was then anchored in the Solent for the whole of 1917. The entry of the USA into the war in December 1917 brought the ship back into service to transport the American Expeditionary Force. After the war it was also used in the repatriation of Canadian troops.

Britannic

It was finally launched on 26 February 1914 as the Britannic. White Star announced that it would begin sailing the Southampton-New York route in the spring of 1915. The outbreak of World War One changed this and it was converted into a hospital ship with over 3,300 beds. On 13 November it was fitted out medically and on 8 December commissioned as a hospital ship and handed over in International Red Cross livery. The Britannic arrived at Liverpool, from Belfast, on 12 December 1915, but it did not leave on its maiden voyage to Mudros until 23 December.

The ship went on to make further voyages as a hospital ship. Next it was to call at Mudros on the Isle of Lemnos and assist in the evacuation of wounded troops from the Gallipoli campaign. It also spent four weeks as a floating hospital ship off Cowes on the Isle of Wight. Subsequent to this it returned to Belfast on 6 June 1916 and was released from war service. Harland and Wolff had already begun refitting the Britannic as a Royal Mail and passenger steamer when the Admiralty recalled the ship to war service. The ship made two further trips to Mudros before its final voyage.

Mauretania

The reduced demand for transatlantic passages meant that the ship was laid up at Liverpool on 26 August. After the loss of the Lusitania in May 1915 the Mauretania was required to return to service. Before it did, however, the Admiralty requisitioned the ship to transport troops during the Gallipoli campaign, later in May. During this period the ship made several voyages to Mudros Bay island of Lemnos, the Allied base for operations in the area. On one of these voyages the Mauretania was attacked by a submarine but managed to avoid the torpedo, largely due the ship's high speed. At the end of August it returned to Liverpool and was fitted out as a hospital ship. It then left Liverpool on 21 October to assist with the evacuation of the wounded from Gallipoli. The Mauretania made several further voyages as a hospital ship and completed its last voyage on 25 January 1916.

This, however, was not the end of the ship's war service. On 29 September it was requisitioned again to carry Canadian troops. In October-November 1916 it made two voyages from Liverpool to Halifax carrying Canadian troops bound for France. After this it was laid up on the Clyde until 1918. In March 1918 it was again used as a troopship carrying over 30,000 American troops before the Armstice in November. After the end of the war the ship was used in the repatriation of American and Canadian troops. From 12 December it was decided that the Mauretania would now sail from Southampton and call at Cherbourg on its way to New York. It made its final trooping voyage on 28 June 1919 and was then refitted at Southampton.

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My guess is that the Brittanic may be ruled out - if she was already a hospital ship she would have been in the white paint scheme?

I post a couple of pics, from the above site, of the Mauretania and the Aquitania to compare silhouettes. (Maurit left, Aquit right)

My guess is that it was the Aquitania, looking at the profile.

Ian

4 May , 2008

Ian

I should have waited for your post which puts a different light on the timing of the photograph. Your post quotes Aquitania and Mauetania arriving in the region after the River Clyde incident. I therefore have to eat humble-pie and retract my comments above to Charles and accept that the photo was taken after their awards. They are probably convalescing on Imbros prior to new postings.

Tony

4 May , 2008

I came across this photo on the web which claimed to be Aquitania loading the 54th Division at Liverpool. If it was correctly captioned she was in dazzle camo' for the trip.

Gareth

4 May , 2008

Some information and pictures of the Aquitania here, one of my great uncles sailed on her to the Dardenells campaign, sadly it was a one way ticket for him.

http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/Cun_Aquitania.html

Phil

4 May , 2008

I came across this photo on the web which claimed to be Aquitania loading the 54th Division at Liverpool. If it was correctly captioned she was in dazzle camo' for the trip.
Gareth

Gareth

Not being an expert on the Gallipoli campaign, were the 54th destined for that area because the liner in the photo does not appear to be in Cammo livery?

Phil

I did check that site but still can't make my mind up between Aquitania and Mauretania. I was leaning towards Aquitania until Gareth's photo. It's probably going to be one of those unanswered mysteries!

Thanks for the interest

Tony

4 May , 2008

Not being an expert on the Gallipoli campaign, were the 54th destined for that area because the liner in the photo does not appear to be in Camo livery?

Yes 54th Division were sent to Suvla Bay on the Aquitania, with the troops transshipped from Mudros arriving at Suvla August the 10th. Please remember that the photo is not mine, and may not be correctly annotated for either ship depicted or the location and date of loading.

I was hoping that someone would confirm or deny the authenticity of the photo.

Gareth

4 May , 2008

I was hoping that someone would confirm or deny the authenticity of the photo.

That wonderful publication "The War Illustrated" carried this photo as the frontispiece of Issue No 54, Volume 3 on 28 August 1915 (P.25). The caption reads:

" WHAT IS OUR NAVY DOING? - An optimistic answer to an eternal query. Three jolly "midshipmites" off for a picnic somewhere in Gallipoli. These junior representatives of fighting Britain will not be denied their smile or their tiffin for all the Turco-Teuton shells and hymns of hate. Duty and danger are imminent, but they are equal to it with the spirit of laughing courage and spontaneous patriotism, surely one of Britannia's strongest weapons against the dour-faced, super-mechanical Hun."

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT!!! Authentic or what?

Interestingly, the picture in "TWI" does not have the four-funnelled liner in the background because the left of the photo has been cropped. No names or detailed location are given.

4 May , 2008

Tony, `Et Al', nothing to do with I.Ding ship but find here VC awards to DREWRY & MALLESON - gives how DREWRY received his wounds ;

MALLESON Wilfred St. N/E MiD RN 80E028 N/E

Vice Admiral Commanding Eastern Mediterranean Squadron

16.08.15 Gazetted

Landing at Gallipoli Peninsula 25-26.04.15 VC

Was one of the officers in the "River Clyde", and observing that the Lighters which were to form the bridge to shore had broken adrift, he attempted, under murderous fire, to get them into position. He suffered severely from cold and immersion, and after partially recovering again returned to the work. He also sustained three abrasions caused by bullets, and after treatment assisted to save some wounded men lying in shallow water near the beach. He kept on until obliged to stop through sheer physical exhaustion.

Assisted Commander Unwin, and after Midshipman Drewry had failed from exhaustion to get a line from lighter to lighter he swam with it himself and was succeeded. The line subsequently broke, and he afterwards made two further but unssuccessful attempts at his self-imposed task.

DREWRY George N/E MiD RNR 80E028 N/E

Vice Admiral Commanding Eastern Mediterranean Squadron

16.08.15 Gazetted

Landing at Gallipoli Peninsula 25-26.04.15 VC

Was one of the officers in the "River Clyde", and observing that the Lighters which were to form the bridge to shore had broken adrift, he attempted, under murderous fire, to get them into position. He suffered severely from cold and immersion, and after partially recovering again returned to the work. He also sustained three abrasions caused by bullets, and after treatment assisted to save some wounded men lying in shallow water near the beach. He kept on until obliged to stop through sheer physical exhaustion.

Assisted Commander Unwin at the work of securing the lighters under heavy rifle and Maxim fire. He was wounded in the head, but continued his work and twice subsequently attempted to swim from lighter to lighter with a line.

Regards Sadsac

4 May , 2008

Gareth

Not blaming you, I sometimes wonder how well some of these journalists, even today, check their information before sticking it on a photograph. But then the 'Deadline' is probably more important than the facts. However, someone may still come up with an answer

horatio2

As I said lack of checking

Sadsac

Thanks for that. I had a general idea of their actions but your info comfirms it. Ironically Drewry's head got in the way once too often as he died on 2nd August 1918 from a fractured skull when a block fell from a derreck whilst he was in Scapa Flow.

Thanks chaps

Tony

4 May , 2008

Bit more on the Mauretania:

First trip as troop ship to Mudros - departed Liverpool 21 May 15 - funnels and port holes painted BLACK

upperworks paited GREY

Second voyage to Lemnos - departed Liverpool 9th July - with 6 INCH GUN fitted on her stern

Final Gallipoli troop trip departed UK 25 Aug 15 - DAZZLE PAINTED

Latter part of 1915 converted to hospital ship (along with Aquitania and Britannic). Departed Liverpool in this guise

22 Oct 15.

The paint schemes for both Aquitania and Mauretania seem to have been changed at a similar time and maybe also for the Britannic. Hence by Aug 15 both Mauretania and Aquitania had dazzle schemes.

As both VCs were in April 15 it would seem this pic was taken some time between May and July 1915. And if recoverd from wounds then more likely July?

Ian

4 May , 2008

Thanks Ian

With that info and assuming that their conditions were not serious they were probably well into recovery by mid May so, unless someone suggests otherwise, I think that I will opt for Mauretania unless someone convinces me that Aquitania was there at the same time without Dazzle Camouflague.

Tony

4 May , 2008

Thanks Ian

With that info and assuming that their conditions were not serious they were probably well into recovery by mid May so, unless someone suggests otherwise, I think that I will opt for Mauretania unless someone convinces me that Aquitania was there at the same time without Dazzle Camouflague.

Tony

5 May , 2008

Looks like I was wrong, but its a tonic when a conclusion is drawn, the forum at its best.

Regards Charles

5 May , 2008

Thanks Ian
With that info and assuming that their conditions were not serious they were probably well into recovery by mid May so, unless someone suggests otherwise, I think that I will opt for Mauretania unless someone convinces me that Aquitania was there at the same time without Dazzle Camouflague.

Tony

Maybe the pic was more likely taken in May rather than July - it would surely have been a lot hotter in July than their images depict?

I do not have the Aquitania info as to when she was dazzle painted, but the Liverpools pic above is from August, by when the Mauretania had also received similar treatment.

Ian

19 May , 2008

Bit more on the Mauretania:
...

Second voyage to Lemnos - departed Liverpool 9th July - with 6 INCH GUN fitted on her stern

...

Ian

Hi Ian, or any other interested in this big troopers...

on the September 9th, 1915 the german U 21 (which had sunk TRIUMPH and MAJESTIC) missed the MAURETANIA with an torpedo, 9 miles North of Strati Is.

Torpedo was fired at 1400 metres, MAURETANIA was coming from Mudros.

On the morning of July 20th, 1915 the german UB 8 sighted an ship type MAURETANIA in Mudros Bay (MAURETANIA herself I think ?).

2 days before the UB 8 missed the AQUITANIA (?) with one torpedo, South of Lemnos Is., AQUITANIA was leaving Mudros.

From the informations I have found in the National Archives I'm sure that it was MAURETANIA which was missed by U 21 and AQUITANIA which was missed by UB 8, but can you confirm it by means of the sailing dates of the two liners ?

Thanks a lot

Oliver

19 May , 2008

Oliver,