Soldier of the R.G.A

[foxfamily@lineone.net]

Hi

Here's hoping someone out there can help me with my family research. My husband's great uncle changed his name to Albert Rawson, supposedly because he deserted during the war, but as yet have found no evidence to support this.

He married in the Feb of 1916 aged 26 giving his occupation as Corp R.G.A at Cooden Camp, Bexhill-on-sea.

Because of his given age and other particulars I am almost certain that his real name was Herbert Fox born 1888 in Norfolk.

Albert Rawson/Herbert Fox and his wife Rhoda had twin boys in Sept 1922, one was named Norman Herbert Fox Rawson and the other Sydney Ronald Fox Rawson. The birth cert states that Albert was then a Battery Quarter Master Sergeant R.G.A and address is the garrison at Sheerness.

Also the family thinks he was out in India at some point and according to his brother, Frank Norman Fox's WW1 service records, a document dated I think 1917 states Herbert Fox was in the R.G.A , India.

I'm afraid thats where I get stuck, I have no service number for him and can find no medal card for him under either name.

Can anyone help me, particularly in relation to the R.G.A.

[Coldstreamer]

welcome

he will only be on the MIC if he got a medal(s) for ww1

If he was still serving after ww1 ended then the papers are not released yet (except the exceptions that slipped through)

[kevinrowlinson]

The most likely candidate I can find is 30602 Albert Rawson. His date of entry to France was 5-3-1915. Proving he is the same person will be hard. To become a BQMS it is unlikely he deserted during the war, quite the opposite I would say. He must have had a fairly good record.

Kevin

[foxfamily@lineone.net]

The most likely candidate I can find is 30602 Albert Rawson. His date of entry to France was 5-3-1915. Proving he is the same person will be hard. To become a BQMS it is unlikely he deserted during the war, quite the opposite I would say. He must have had a fairly good record.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin I will have a look at this Albert Rawson and see if it matches up.

[foxfamily@lineone.net]

welcome

he will only be on the MIC if he got a medal(s) for ww1

If he was still serving after ww1 ended then the papers are not released yet (except the exceptions that slipped through)

Thanks for the reply. Do you know if it's possible to access army service records for those that stayed on after the war and if so where are these held?

[KONDOA]

http://www.army.mod.uk/contacts/divisions/records.htm

[ororkep]

Welcome to the forum Jane,

I have this man Albert Rawson in my database with a question mark against him until further proof was made available, hopefully i had thought through Ancestry and with his service record released. If it is the same man at Sheerness in 1922 (12 Fire Command), then his records will not be and you will have to write to the Glasgow address as per Kondoas post for them. He was in my database based on the date of entry, as I know that 5/3/1915 invariably only applied to two specific batteries, both in 7 Brigade. Both of these went out to the Western Front having been recalled from service in India.

Although not shown on his MIC, a quick look at his Medal roll, and it shows Rawson also became a BQMS. He is shown as going out with 7 Sge Bty (Battery). I am almost certain this is a mistake and should be 7 Sge Bde (Brigade) so you can see how easily an error might have occurred. This then, his age and his pre war regular service number make him a strong possible, certainly worth further investigation and the small fee the MOD may charge. Towards the back end of 1915 numerous NCO’s, especially those with combat experience were brought back to England to help train the new army batteries. The family information on the form for his POW brother was not necessarily entered in 1917. Do you by chance have a photo of him?.

Rgds Paul

[foxfamily@lineone.net]

Welcome to the forum Jane,

I have this man Albert Rawson in my database with a question mark against him until further proof was made available, hopefully i had thought through Ancestry and with his service record released. If it is the same man at Sheerness in 1922 (12 Fire Command), then his records will not be and you will have to write to the Glasgow address as per Kondoas post for them. He was in my database based on the date of entry, as I know that 5/3/1915 invariably only applied to two specific batteries, both in 7 Brigade. Both of these went out to the Western Front having been recalled from service in India.

Although not shown on his MIC, a quick look at his Medal roll, and it shows Rawson also became a BQMS. He is shown as going out with 7 Sge Bty (Battery). I am almost certain this is a mistake and should be 7 Sge Bde (Brigade) so you can see how easily an error might have occurred. This then, his age and his pre war regular service number make him a strong possible, certainly worth further investigation and the small fee the MOD may charge. Towards the back end of 1915 numerous NCO's, especially those with combat experience were brought back to England to help train the new army batteries. The family information on the form for his POW brother was not necessarily entered in 1917. Do you by chance have a photo of him?.

Rgds Paul

Paul

Thanks for the welcome and all the very useful info. I have been researching the family's history for a while but military records and history is new to me and I'm finding it absolutely fascinating, although a bit confusing at times. The brother I mentioned was a Frank Norman Fox who was a Lance Corporal in the 1/5 Bat Norfolk Reg which went out to Gallipoli, he was reported missing after the Sulva Bay assault on the 12th Aug 1915 (I have downloaded the war diaries for this time and it's fascinating and frightening to read what they all went through on that day), a month later he was reported a POW. Sadly he died in 1917 still a POW in a Turkish Hospital, and his memorial is in Baghdad. I'm afraid I don't have any photo's.

I will certainly apply to see Albert's records and will post result's as and when.

Would Cooden camp at Bexhill-on-sea have been a training camp, as I know he was in Feb 1916.

Thanks again

Jane

[rob carman]

(I have downloaded the war diaries for this time

Jane,

Will you expand on this please. I would very much like to access the 1/5th Norfolk's diary and living in Old Virginy makes a trip to Kew unlikely. Which other unit diaries were you able to download?

Thanks,

Rob.

[foxfamily@lineone.net]

Jane,

Will you expand on this please. I would very much like to access the 1/5th Norfolk's diary and living in Old Virginy makes a trip to Kew unlikely. Which other unit diaries were you able to download?

Thanks,

Rob.

Hi Rob

The war diaries I downloaded from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk it costs £3.50 for each document, payable online and then documents available for download immediately. Search first under documentsonline section, war diaries are bottom of list.

I have 1/5 Norfolk reg Gallipoli diaries for Aug and Sept 1915 which starts with their departure from Liverpool at the very end of July on the H.M.T. Aquitania and then onto the battle at Sulva Bay. I have also downloaded the diaries for the H.Q.163rd Inf Bde.

Regards

Jane

[Guest keithrawson]

Hi Jane

My Father was Ronald Sydney Fox Rawson and Albert Rawson was my grandfather although he died before I was born.

The story that my father told me was that his father had been born in Norfolk with the surname Pickles ,mother had then married father surname changed to Fox ,he then joined Royal Navy at young age ,jumped ship in Argentina at Port Rawson. He then made his way back to UK via Australia with the Merchant Navy, changing his surname to Rawson before enlisting in the Army and serving throughout the War.

I hope that this clears him of any deserting the Army claims, it was actually the navy he deserted from before any hostilites had even been thought of.

Regards

Keith

[Guest Chris Rawson]

Hi

Here's hoping someone out there can help me with my family research. My husband's great uncle changed his name to Albert Rawson, supposedly because he deserted during the war, but as yet have found no evidence to support this.

He married in the Feb of 1916 aged 26 giving his occupation as Corp R.G.A at Cooden Camp, Bexhill-on-sea.

Because of his given age and other particulars I am almost certain that his real name was Herbert Fox born 1888 in Norfolk.

Albert Rawson/Herbert Fox and his wife Rhoda had twin boys in Sept 1922, one was named Norman Herbert Fox Rawson and the other Sydney Ronald Fox Rawson. The birth cert states that Albert was then a Battery Quarter Master Sergeant R.G.A and address is the garrison at Sheerness.

Also the family thinks he was out in India at some point and according to his brother, Frank Norman Fox's WW1 service records, a document dated I think 1917 states Herbert Fox was in the R.G.A , India.

I'm afraid thats where I get stuck, I have no service number for him and can find no medal card for him under either name.

Can anyone help me, particularly in relation to the R.G.A.

Hi Jane

My paternal grandfather was Albert Rawson. My father was Norman Herbert Fox Rawson, whose birth certificate I have. I can't add much to what my cousin, Keith, has already posted other than to say that Rhoda told two differing stories about the name Rawson. One was as Keith has indicated; the other was that he assumed the surname Rawson from the captain of the merchant vessel he joined in South America. I do know that Albert and Rhoda (and the twins) spent some time in Northern Ireland in the 1920s - presumably a posting.

Chris Rawson

The family have always said that there was armistice for all previous deserters at the beginning of the Great War - allowing Albert to join up. Whether this is true or not, I don't know.

Presumably your husband must be related to 'Aunt Daisy' Fox who died a few years having just made her century?

I am also in possession of a medal that Albert won in the Army Rifle Association 'Artillery Cup' in 1926. The presentation box is marked 'B Ninnes, Goldsmith, Hythe.

By the late 1930s Rhoda, Albert and the twins were living in Eltham, London, SE9

[Guest jabdc5]

Hi, I've just joined as I came across these posts when researching a silver fob which I came across in my grandfather's possessions. It is shield shape and has crossed rifles.On the reverse is reads A Rawson" BQMS, it is hallmarked for 1902. I'm not sure if it relates to the A Rawson discussed here but thought I would bring it to the attention of any member of the family who still may be around,

J

[Guest Alan Fox]

I am Alan Norman Fox and had an uncle who lived in Eltham under an assumed name with his wife Rhoda and twin boys.

The story I was told was that he had jumped ship following a boxing match against an officer where the officer had come off worst.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

What a fascinating story!

[Guest]

Hi. Is anyone who posted here and related to Albert still monitoring this post?

 

I am related to Herbert Fox Pickles, through his mother (Mary Ann Pickles), who I have only just recently worked out he changed his name to Albert Rawson through some DNA matching from one of his descendants. From following this, I found a Civil Service check from 1935 which he admits he is the same person; Hebert F Pickles and Albert Rawson. I tracked him down to Woolwich then the RGA and hence this thread. Some great stories here on why he may have changed his name. I have seen him in India in the Army as A Rawson born in Norwich in the 1911 census so it appears he did not change it at the beginning of the War. He did join the Royal Navy in 1903 aged 15 under the name Herbert Fox. He served on HMS Encounter from 21 Dec 1905 and this ship sailed to Australia on 31 Dec 1905 and stayed there. He went on the run and deserted on 22 Nov 1907. It says from HMS Encounter Sydney. 

Edited 2 November , 2018 by Guest