Terry Denham Posted 25 April , 2008 Share Posted 25 April , 2008 Chris Could you prepare a definitive list of those you think may be non-coms when you think you have them all as it will be better to ask CWGC all in one go rather than have several names fired at them seperately. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 25 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2008 Terry will do Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 25 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2008 From the Times of 21 Dec 1920 This give us Lt S B Brown RGA Name: BROWN, BERNARD LOFTUS Initials: B L Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Royal Garrison Artillery Unit Text: 26th Heavy Bty. Age: 24 Date of Death: 01/11/1920 Awards: M C Additional information: Son of Albert Loftus Brown and Mabel Kathleen Brown, of "Holme," Chatsworth Rd., West Norwood, London. Educated at Dulwich College (O.T.C.) and Royal Military Academy (Woolwich), March, 1915. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Memorial: HOLLYBROOK MEMORIAL, SOUTHAMPTON I think this is our Lt Brown Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 20 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Having consulted with Terry the only man mentioned so far who has not been submitted to the CWGC for recognition is Captain M H W Green 3rd Bn Lincolnshire Regt who probably died along with Captain Chambers & Lt Watts on 15th Nov 1920 Wondering if there is anyone in Ireland who could look out the DC for me please Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean. Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Hi Chris, I have been watching this thread with great interest, I will contact the GRO to search their records for Captain Green's death cert, it takes about ten days, Regards, Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 20 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Sean top man - thanks very much Let me know how much I owe you Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean. Posted 20 May , 2008 Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Chris, Not a mention of money, all in a good cause. Waterfall is in my area so his death may be registered here in Cork, could take less time. Regards. Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 20 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2008 Sean absolutely brilliant - you are very kind Anything I can do please let me know Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollydot Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 At a talk last night about 16th Irish Div and the guy giving the talk produced a book which I THINK is a record of the CWG sites/graves in Ireland (republic bit). This was published recently by the Irish government. Dave O'Brien is the speakers name and he is from the Dubs Association. He's sending me a copy of the book and I'll have a better chance to see what it contains when it arrives. Only got a brief glance last night. It might be worth while investigating what it contains. He's been working hard to get the graves and soldiers recognised, you can maybe contact him through Dubs website, and he might have lots more info. Really great speaker by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 21 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Ollydot thanks for the info - could you give the link to the site please Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Chris, I don't know whether this officer's story is of interest/relevance. He is not on the CWGC. I found this in his personal file at the NA whilst researching an update on my 56th Division book. The officer's name is 2nd Lt Seymour Livingston Vincent, originally of the 1/13th London Regt (Kensingtons). He was evacuated from Le Havre on 5th July 1916 suffering from shell shock and shrapnel wounds to the right foot and left arm. He returned to France in May 1917 and served in Salonika with the 82nd Company, Machine Gun Corps. This is the rest of his biog from the book: 2nd Lt Seymour Livingston Vincent, 1/13th London Regt. (Kensingtons) was born in 1890 and lived in Loughton, Essex. He was seconded to the 168th Machine Gun Company on 16th March 1916. He died in strange circumstances in May 1921. He had been transferred to the 2nd Brigade, RFA, in December 1920 and had been serving at Fermoy, a small town in County Cork. He had applied for a transfer to the Army Educational Corps, before the war he was a teacher, and had then asked to resign his commission. He then disappeared without trace on 23rd May 1921. It was not until an anonymous letter was sent to the British Government in June 1924 containing details of the burial of a British officer in Lenihan’s Bog, Glenville, Co. Cork, owned by one Dan Hickey, “the notorious reble (sic) farmer”, that further investigations took place. At the time of his disappearance the Colonel commanding the 16th Infantry Brigade based at Fermoy basically accused Vincent of lying about his intentions of going on leave but, within a week, another report, regretting several errors in the first, was issued which noted that Vincent had appeared somewhat disorientated before going on (approved) leave. It went on to report that five days after he left, three members of the 2nd Brigade of the IRA raided Fermoy Station and, breaking into the office there, had stolen various items from Vincent’s luggage, including a service revolver. Although the Royal Irish Constabulary were informed nothing was ever discovered about his whereabouts. It is thought that he, and possibly another man, were murdered by the IRA and buried at Lenihan’s Bog. Vincent’s body was later re-interred in Glenville Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 21 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Bill looks a good case to me - could you give the file ref if possible - will check the Times Archives to see if there is any details there thanks for the info Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 WO 374/70654 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 21 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Bill cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean. Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Hi Chris, Could not locate Capt Green's DC localy so will have to wait for the GRO search. Along with the three men who were taken from the train at Waterfall, a Lieutenant Goode (army schools inspector) was also ordered off however he was released on the platform and watched as the three men were led over a footbridge to a nearby field where they were shot and buried. (very sad end, it hurts to even type the words). In relation to Bill's post re 2nd Lt Vincent, I have added his name to the list for the GRO search in case he too turns out to be a non com. I also contacted the rector at Glenville Church who recalls a soldier buried there without a headstone, but he could not recall his name, I will be meeting with him over the next few days. Regards, Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 21 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Sean wonderful info thanks very much mate I know the hurt - have seen too many of my mates dead Checked the Times Archive this afternoon for Vincent - no results Im afraid Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 21 May , 2008 Share Posted 21 May , 2008 Chris, I have some jpgs of some of the contents of Vincent's file if of any use/interest. Largish files (1-2Mbs) so will need to email. PM if you'd like them. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollydot Posted 22 May , 2008 Share Posted 22 May , 2008 Chris Here are 2 sites might be of interest:- www.royaldublinfusiliers.com www.greatwar.ie Good hunting!! Evelyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 22 May , 2008 Share Posted 22 May , 2008 Having consulted with Terry the only man mentioned so far who has not been submitted to the CWGC for recognition is Captain M H W Green 3rd Bn Lincolnshire Regt who probably died along with Captain Chambers & Lt Watts on 15th Nov 1920 Chris Chris, I don't know whether this adds anything to your files but Green's MIC indicated that he was dead. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 23 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2008 Andy thanks mate - another piece to add to the puzzle Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 23 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2008 The files that Bill has sent are absolutely fascinating & I believe that they provide all of the evidence required for recognition by the CWGC - will be forwarding them to Terry this evening Chris In relation to Bill's post re 2nd Lt Vincent, I have added his name to the list for the GRO search in case he too turns out to be a non com. I also contacted the rector at Glenville Church who recalls a soldier buried there without a headstone, but he could not recall his name, I will be meeting with him over the next few days. Sean all the docs forwarded to me by Bill seem to indicate a burial at Glenville Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean. Posted 23 May , 2008 Share Posted 23 May , 2008 Hi Chris and Bill, Yes I agree a fantastic paper trail which shows that he was to be buried in Glenville church yard. The papers that Bill found including the letter dated June 1924 telling of his buriel place in the bogland proves that he was abducted and killed. The rector who holds the buriel records for the Fermoy area (glenville falls within this area) is on leave for about 4 weeks, however I will be going to the churchyard tomorrow to have a look at the unmarked grave. Regards, Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 23 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2008 Sean yes it is wonderful stuff - if this thread just gets one man in from the cold it will be worth it Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 24 May , 2008 Share Posted 24 May , 2008 I'm waiting keenly for the results of the twin investigations on 2nd Lt Vincent. If either objective are achieved, even better both, it will be one of the most satisfying pieces of research I've done and the timing of reading this thread a few day's later almost perfectly serendipitous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 24 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2008 Bill I dont know about you but I believe there is an outside force guiding us Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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