`Lost' ships

[sadsac]

Hello all, trying to assist Garry, in the Colonies (little island of OZ !!).

Cannot find any of these `ships' CAWLER ?? RUSSELL WELBECK.

Have looked thro Dittmar & Colledge WW1 - cannot find mention !

They were attached to VERNON 1917 where a family member of GARRY received MiD for making Mine safe. So `presume' little ships attached to VERNON for mining duties.

CPO George John Laws STAFF

We have the ADM 188 / 422 record of Staff, but the CAWLER is somewhat obscure -

AHH - I see now it is most possibly TRAWLERS.

Any info welcome chaps.

Sadsac

[joseph]

Sadsac,

Russell(II) and Welbeck both requisitiioned trawlers converted to 'Minelayers' does that fit with George's Subspec. No joy with Cawler? any other names it looks like.

Regards Charles

[sadsac]

Well Done Joseph - I was expecting YOU to come up with something.

YES they fit nicely with details.

Where did you find details Re R & W ??

As to CAWLER - I do not think my entry last was explicit enough.

On further reading I have established that it reads TRAWLERS then RUSSELL & WELBECK.

These were `attached / tender to' VERNON Mine shore base.

NOW where do I find details of the MiD for STAFF.

All I have (from Record) is AWO (Admiralty War Order ??) 2843 of 03 08 17.

Suspect he cop'd MiD whilst serving in WELBECK - apparently he defused mines that were `loose'.

No logs for WELBECK in PRO, but I see that VERNON has logs for Oct. 16 to Sept. 17 -

ADM 53 / 67247 so I will have a look in there when next at PRO (June / July ??).

Long shot, but needs must - poor `Colonials' don't have such info - they swapped it for sunshine !!!

Thanks again Joseph, regards Sadsac

[joseph]

Sadsac

Russell II

Displacement 246 tons

Engines 63hp

Armament 1x6pdr; 24 mines

Port Reg GY. 192

Launched 1906, built by Cook Welton and Gemmell at Beverley East Yorkshire.

Requisitioned May 1915 and converted to a minelayer. 1920 returned to owners.

Welbeck

Displacement 302 tons

Engines 84hp

Armament 1x6pdr; 24 mines

Port Reg GY.455

Launched 1915 built by Cochrane at Selby East Yorkshire.

Requisitioned May 1915 and converted to a minelayer. 1920 returned to owners

Ref: Gerald Toghill; RN Trawlers Part Two Requisitioned Trawlers.

A CPO wouldn't normally serve on a trawler, HMS Vernon was a tender to HMS Excellent and was alongside Fountain Lake jetty in Portsmouth Dockyard. She was the Royal Navy's school for torpedoes, mines and electrics. He could well be an instructor on I assume minelaying. His MID will be promulgated in the London Gazette but not with a citation.

Have you got his Sub rating?

Regards Charles

[sadsac]

Charles, thanks for further info. Sub rating ?? I only have LTO - Leading Torpedo Operator.

Also alongside P.O he has (NS) ?? And Rating T.C (Training Course ??)

He also has War Graturity HMS DOLPHIN - so he may at sometime have been attached to Dolphin (Submarine Service ashore ??). Also Lent to Brazilian Navy.

His record is Transferred to Card 1929.

Would like to send the Record to you but do not know how (THICK !!)

Sadsac

[joseph]

Sadsac

"Also alongside P.O he has (NS) ?? And Rating T.C (Training Course ??)"

NS is 'New System' which is a rating established on 1st October 1907

TC is 'Torpedo Boat Coxswain'

Regards Charles

[sadsac]

Well Done Charles and thanks. Understand now why you have `Blood on yer Hat' !!!

Sadsac

[per ardua per mare per terram]

If someone friendly is going to Kew the original recommendation can probably be found using the ADM 12 indexes.