Has anyone come across this lady?

[royalredcross]

If she served with the Canadians in France that would account for the trio she is wearing and which we could not locate earlier. I can understand her knocking half a dozen years off her age if she was keen to serve, but what would the purpose be of altering her place of birth ??

I can't find her in any of my Canadian Militia Lists - can anyone else ?

Norman

[Myrtle]

I can understand her knocking half a dozen years off her age if she was keen to serve, but what would the purpose be of altering her place of birth ??

Norman

Belt and Braces ! To ensure that her true age would not be discovered ? Otherwise this could be a similar example to the Mrs Jones case (wife of Peter Jones the department store owner) who gave the last place in which she lived as the place of her birth in each of the censuses.

Myrtle

[seaJane]

Here are more details, from a friend who has an Ancestry.com subscription (thanks Ro!)

Birth: BMD Index, Dec 1855 at Narborough (not Marlborough) in the district of Blaby,Leicestershire,Volume 7a,Page 35

1881 census: a school governess residing with her mother & brother at Lambeth, Norwood.

Marriage: BMD index Marian Edith Beresford to William Job Maillard at Church Stretton,Shropshire Jul/Aug/Sep, 1896, Volume 6a ,Page 1105 (not British Honduras 1893 as recorded by John Winton in "The Victoria Cross at Sea")

Just to add to the fun, her husband Will got on the 1891 census twice - once aboard IRON DUKE at Portsmouth Dockyard and once at RNH Haslar across the water.

I really can't account for her falsifying the place and date of her birth so thoroughly unless she was really determined to cover her trail - but why?

[williywonker]

 

On 05/05/2020 at 23:58, williywonker said:

 

 

Mr Edith Maillard's Medal Group

Edited 17 August , 2023 by williywonker
Duplication

[williywonker]

Mrs Edith Maillard Royal British Nurses Badge. Worn above her medal group. The Victoria Cross to her husband is on the opposite breast

[ForeignGong]

The Italian Red Cross Medal is for Messina as well, as per the following

 

"The Embassy in Rome provided the following list of the recipients of the Red Cross medal. Approval for acceptance and wear of these medals was given: see file FO 372/366"

 

There are 19 names on the list

[seaJane]

Thanks! The first post in the thread will reveal that I knew what most of the medals were, but could not find evidence for the award of most of them.

 

The identification I was lacking was the Royal British Nurses' Medal of which I'd never heard, so thanks to @williywonker for that. May I ask if you know where the medals are, that you have a photograph of them?

 

[Madmeg]

Having a Marian of my own in the family it's not just be the surname that can be spelled wrong- my Marian appears as Maria in the 1841 and as Maryann in the 1851.

 

So you will find MARIAM E. with her parents -James W b Macclesfield 1817 and Frances B b York c1815 living in Narborough 1871. James is a General Practitioner. In 1861 you will find Maria E with her mother (surgeons wife) in Narborough- no sign of James , can't find him. 1881 as you say in Lambeth- note that Charles Barry/Parry is living with the family in 1871 before marrying Marian's sister Frances J.  Widowed mother Frances Brown Beresford is living off a pension in the Royal Medical benevolent College in Epsom in 1891.

Pre M.E's birth 1851 the family are in Narborough James is shown as GP MACL and LAC, there are a brother , cousin and adopted son (McKellar member MRCS) in the household.

 

Not having much luck for her as Mrs Maillard in 1901 or 1911 but have found her sister Frances J Parry in Walthamstow with her family 1901 and (another surgeon) Charles W Beresford (haven;t checked if he's her brother but seems likely, unless he's the cousin) still in Narborough 1901,1911. There is also a John (Waddington)(there was a brother John ) Chemists assistant b "Marlboro" Leicesteshire living in Willesden in 1901. He's a druggist in Camden in 1911 with Narborough as PoB. Francis James a surgeon in Willesden in 1911 with his family. I think those are both brothers for her. A very medical family!

 

I was hoping to find her perhaps living with one of the siblings under a misspelled name but no luck so far.

 

Perhaps she starting using Edith cos she was fed up with people getting her first name wrong :-)

 

Edited 6 May , 2020 by Madmeg

[seaJane]

I think she may have been out of the country in 1911, but I'm fairly sure I had her at Thames Ditton in 1901, her husband at that time being in the lunatic asylum at RN Hospital Great Yarmouth (patients identified by initials only, and there being 2 WMs to choose from).

[The Inspector]

Hi SJ

A bit more info. if you haven't already got it 

1911 emigrated to Canada see.......https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=8991&h=209337&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=2352   date of birth ??????

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8991/1921_020-e002878067?pid=209337&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid%3D8991%26h%3D209337%26indiv%3Dtry%26o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D8913&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.95156380.1239649968.1588527961-1783877415.1578070585

 

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1939UKRegister&indiv=try&h=14377212

Regards Barry

Edited 6 May , 2020 by The Inspector

[seaJane]

Thanks Barry - I think I do have that information tucked away somewhere, just as well as I don't have an ancestry subscription. I will take this along to the public library when I next can, so as to make sure.

 

Best wishes, sJ

[Madmeg]

A suggestion regarding te @armargh@ birth place. As her actual BP of Narborough has been mistranscribed across several census for various siblings perhaps this is also a mistranscription. The link to the Canadian records is broken so I haven't found them yet.  Another possibility is that "Armargh" and "Nraborough" might be misheard and written down incorrectly by someone not familiar with UK place names. The birth date could also be incorrectly transcribed or written down in the original.

 

Ref William Maillard- just a query as I don't know- is RNH (hospital ? I assume) Great Yarmouth actually AT Great Yarmouth- I only ask because of the strange way the Navy has of naming its shore bases after ships etc. It just seems a bit odd that HE should be in Gt Yarmouth while SHE is in Thames Ditton but he then gets buried in Christchurch.

If he is down as WM in the records (quite common for the time in mental instituions) is there a note of his birth place or rank in the census record? This oftne did get recorded (when known) in institution records.

[Madmeg]

I'm only finding "WM " at the Great Yarmouth Hospital in 1911- by which time our chap is deceased.

 

The transcribed 1901 from this page https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3.spanglefish.com/s/21984/documents/1901-census.pdf  shows only one WM who is a stoker not a surgeon.The 1901 as transcribed on that page does show whether the patient was "ordinary" or an "officer".  He isn;t there in 1911.

 

 The difficulty is that I can;t find him shown on the census on other search pages- to summarise- my census search (on familyhistory) finds a WM listed in 911 at RN Lunatic asylum (sic), b port , Devon (sic) 1863. There is no WM shown for 1901. The transcribed pages from the site of the RN Hospital Gt Yarmouth shows a WM in 1901 but not in 1911!

 

Houston we have a problem! Obviously there are some discrepancies here in transcriptions etc. 

 

 

 

[Madmeg]

Ahah- found a 1901 for a WM b England 1862 at the RNH Gt Y- unfortunately he is a leading seaman

There is WHM b  1865 Teignmouth - he is a petty officer 

So neither of those look like William Job Maillard- could he have been at a different Hopsital?

 

I'm finding William Job a difficult chap to track down. I think I have his parents in 1861,71,81 but he isn;t shown as with them!

 

Edited 7 May , 2020 by Madmeg

[seaJane]

Hi Meg,

 

No, he was definitely at RN Hospital Great Yarmouth, which was the Navy's main "lunatic asylum" from about 1868, but he wasn't a patient there for very long: he was released from it into Edith's care a year or so before he died. They moved into a house named Candia in Bournemouth, Candia being the name for Herakleion (where his VC action took place) at the time.

 

My notes on him are at work so I am writing from memory here...

 

It may well be that I leapt to the wrong conclusion about the 1901 census. If you look, you will see that I started this thread in 2008 (!), and a lot more information has come online since then which reveals earlier searching as inaccurate. 

 

I'm very grateful that there are still people who are willing to go on looking!

[Madmeg]

One WW1 one for you-

-try the British Newspaper Archive- where in 1915 one Frederick Baker aged 12 was had up for stealing a watch from Marian Edith Maillard - a nursing sister at the Moore Barracks Hospital at? Shortcliffe??Shirtcliffe?  [Appears to be SHORNCLIFFE- originally Brisith, used by the Canadians] She has been sick..... Sorry I don't have a subscription so that is just what I can get off the index entry until libraries reopen. 18 Dec 1915 Folkestone , Hythe Cheriton and Sandgate Herald. 

I note that her attestation for the CAMC was made in London

 

Meanwhile William... 

 

Jan 1899 - William's citation for VC https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/173364370?searchTerm=surgeon maillard&searchLimits=

BNA has a photo taken at Gosport in 1898, various other hits gor Maillard Surgeon on BNA.

 

Are you sure William J was in hospital in Gt Yarmouth in 1901? I'm not now :-) , because in November 1900 he attended a wedding in Sydney, Australia off his ship the Archer.... and so did Marian.....https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/114004877?searchTerm=marian maillard&searchLimits=

and again - this time a social event in December 1900 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/114009300?searchTerm=surgeon maillard&searchLimits= 

 

Stated here as still serving in the Archer Feb 1901 -https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/114015465?searchTerm=surgeon maillard&searchLimits=, The Archer seems to have arrived in November 1900 from Sheerness (via Malta , somewhere, Aden, Colombia, Batavia, Kupang, Thursday Island https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14337315?searchTerm=surgeon maillard&searchLimits=l-decade=190 to replace the Mohawk. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/163697222?searchTerm=surgeon maillard&searchLimits=l-decade=190

 

The couple appear to have left for Freemantle on the Kalgorlie 13th Feb 1901 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/240120639?searchTerm=surgeon maillard&searchLimits=l-decade=190- 

 

The Archer seems to have visited New Zealand after Australia. https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TS19010206.2.9.2?items_per_page=10&query=maillard+surgeon&snippet=true, arriving in Auckland harbour by 21st February- William is noted as being her surgeon except that....

 

By then William was invalided out on his way home... (BINGO!)  12 Feb 1901 https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZTIM19010212.2.20?items_per_page=10&query=maillard+surgeon&snippet=true

 

From his records at National Archives .He is shown as Duke of Wellington Apr 01 to Jul 01 then sick and sick leave, retired unfit Apr 1902, discharged to care of wife (who had been allowed his pay) of Church cottage Thames Ditton, in Jan 1903,, noted as dead 10th Sept 1903. Letters of admon to wife- so no will as such.

 

12th September 1903 there is a death notice for Job Maillard staff surgeon in the Portsmouth Evening News, he appears to have died in Bournemouth, there may be more if you can get to the library and access the article on BNA.

 

So I'm picking that he got posted to Sydney in the Archer in mid to late 1900 and she went over as well- looks like on the Austral- arrivals early November , they attended a couple of social events together then he got sick and was sent home before being invalided out . However, she doesn't appear to have left Australia until November 1901 - on the India commanded by an RNR Commander- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/196594117?searchTerm=RN maillard&searchLimits=l-decade=190|||l-year=1901. She is for Calcutta-visiting friends ? 

 

Some notes on William Maillards family history (for what they may be worth) ..https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MEX18990128.2.37?items_per_page=10&query=maillard+surgeon&snippet=true

 

BNA- for Nurse Maillard picks up some 1896 references in India but that shouldn't be out girl should it? she married in 1896 so unless she then went back to India as a married woman- unlikely, there is also a Louise Emma Maillard nurse- presumably some relative to William. Lots of other references to local Maillards on both Trove and Papers Past.

 

 

And do you have this? https://kingscollections.org/nurses/m-o/maillard-marian-edith-2094....   I note her address is given as 1 The College Epsom- which looks somewhat similar to the address given for her mother in the 1891 census....

 

or this? http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e061/e001524321.jpg from here http://www.canadiangreatwarproject.com/searches/soldierDetail.asp?ID=88612.

 

Is everybody aware that while the National Archives are shut downloads are free? :-D :-D :-D

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 May , 2020 by Madmeg

[Madmeg]

Some research on the Moore Barracks. This seems to have been converted to house injured Canadians- about 800 of them- but was entirely unsuitable for the job basically being a tin roofed barn.

https://ontariofamilyhistory.org/nursingsisterconnor/postings/no-11-canadian-general-hospital-moore-barracks/

 

I'm trying to look at the War diaries but there seems to be a problem with the website - very very slow and keeps refusing to show pages- wlll persevere

 

Assuming that Marian Edith started out at Shorncliffe  sometime before 1915 and was then transferred to the Granville Hopsital Ramsgate and then Buxton in June 1916.

 

If she was with the CEF wouldn;t her medals have been ssued by the Canadians? I can't find a medal index for Canadian forces online.

Edited 7 May , 2020 by Madmeg

[Madmeg]

More on ME's Beresford family can be found here (saving me the trouble :-) ) https://genealogy-specialists.com/threads/missing-child.7678/page-2

Wish I could find details on ,y own family this easily :-D

 

 

[Madmeg]

13 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Hi SJ

A bit more info. if you haven't already got it 

1911 emigrated to Canada see.......https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=8991&h=209337&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=2352   date of birth ??????

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8991/1921_020-e002878067?pid=209337&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid%3D8991%26h%3D209337%26indiv%3Dtry%26o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D8913&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.95156380.1239649968.1588527961-1783877415.1578070585

 

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1939UKRegister&indiv=try&h=14377212

Regards Barry

 

The Marian Edith who emigrated in 1911 appears to have been born in 1871- so far too late for our girl- another relative maybe

[Madmeg]

Just a quick summary before I (try ) to give up on her for the night.

 

Born Narborough LEI dau James W and Frances B Beresford.

Numerous siblings, medical family

 

found Narborough 1861 and 1871 with parent(s) and siblings

1881 in Lambeth with widowed mother and sibling

1884 undertakes training at Birmingham Hospital

1885 goes to Canada as a private nurse

1888 goes to India as nurse

1893 returns from India

1894 gain Dipl in Obstetrics

1896 marries William Job Maillard in Shropshire , kicked off register of nurses (presumably for being married)

1900 (November?) travels to Sydney

1901 (Nov) returns from Australia via India

1902 takes over care of sick husband from Naval authorities

1903 death of husband

1903  A Mrs ME Maillard b 1865 Leicester "domestic" travels to Quebec as a tourist

1909- (not sighted index only) nursing register record on ancestry

1909 takes part in rescue efforts after Messina Earthquake- how or why not known

1911 FOUND HER!!! MariOn Edith Maillard widow living on own means is a visitor at Bramshott Hampshire - date of birth is given as 1863 Leicestershire, in the household of John Redhouse b 1842 Cambridge retired army pensioner plus his two grown up children and servants. Although listed as visitor perhaps she was working as a nurse privately?

1912 awarded Messina medal

1914-18 - Lives of the First World War dob given 1869!

1915 signs up as a nurse with CEF in London

1915 nursing sister at Moor Barracks (CEF) Shorncliffe

1916 transferred from Canadian special Hospital at Ramsgate to Canadian special Hospital at Buxton.

 

 

1939- residence Surrey

1940 death Surrey

 

 

Still a big WW1 gap to fill :-( 

I'm not convinced that it is her going to Canada in 1911 as there s a census record showing DoB in 1921 census as 1871- of course she did have a habit of altering it so may be.... :-) but that might have been a bit of a stretch even for her!

She ceratinly travelled around a bit. 

 

 

 

[seaJane]

Meg,

 

You have been working so hard! Thank you very much.

 

I have lots of information on the actual VC event, and some on the Maillard family (Will had a younger brother) but much of this material is new, and I suspect has arrived on the internet since I was last looking. His Australia posting shows up in the Navy List and at work we have a sketch by him that was apparently made in Australia.

 

I've seen Edith's death notice somewhere - if I recall correctly she died in Wimbledon, in a Queen Alexandra House, possibly a retirement home for army nurses.

seaJane

 

PS: I also know about TNA but would add the proviso that downloads are only available for material that has already been digitised.

[The Inspector]

Hi SJ

1939  register at the QA House  here...https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=61596&h=14377212&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=1904

 

Probate record here ....https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=1904&h=5915502&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=61596

Regards Barry

Edited 7 May , 2020 by The Inspector

[Madmeg]

who is the lady on the probate Amelia Blackburn? a friend, family? 

There's that big gap between 1916 and 1939 to be filled. But the 1920's 30's are difficult- roll on the 1921 census next year.

 

As regards the time in Canada- I haven't seen any ship records for her going over there but my grandmother worked as a private nurse (hence my interest in seeing what I can dig up on Marian as it may give me hints for my own family). My understanding was that-:-obviously only rich people could afford a private nurse; many of the clients had mental issues (admittedly my grandmother was a mental nurse (should I rephrase that :-)) so I may be biased there, stigma etc etc. My grandmother became friends (sometimes lifelong) with some of her clients and was given presents by others. There might be some clues in Marian E's possessions in the will maybe- if she was gifted something by a client? I think I have finally managed to identify a client she had during WW1 from a) the name and b) some jewellery . The name wasn't very helpful as the lady in question was always referred to as Mrs " Name left blank for privacy" , no first name. But the jewellery connected to the name has given me a pretty good idea. Perhaps there is something similar in Marian E's life? 

 

My grandmother worked for an agency (the Mental Nurses Co-Operation) run by a Miss Jean Hastie (who seems quite interesting in her own right, out of a building in Norfolk Square. I would guess that perhaps Marian could have gone through an agency between her husbands death and the start of WW1? She was re registered apparently in 1909.- being a respectable widow and not a married woman who should know better ;-) Because we have to wonder what she was doing in Messina and how did she get there? And who is John Redhouse? - friend relative or client. Then along comes the War and she signs up- but with the Canadians (I'm assuming that they would take her and the British wouldn't? ) Then post war????

She seems to have been based in Surrey from about the death of her husband onwards- but there are no rate records showing on ancestry so maybe she was abroad (again)

 

Re her age- William was quite a few years younger than her so maybe she started being economical with the truth after her marriage. And then as a widow it wouldn;t have been easy to get a job so knocking a few years off (quite a few) would probably have made life easier.

 

PS- I have found her Canadian personnel record (on blimming ancestrty sorry) from what I can make out her medals record should be in this documentation. Still can;t find any (free ) online medal cards for canadians :-( The Canadian libraries site only appears to have her attestation not her personnel files)

 

Right another day of lockdown beckons I'll have a see what I can see.

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 May , 2020 by Madmeg

[Madmeg]

thoughts on the original photo

 

What is she wearing? it does not appear to be Canadian nursing uniform https://camc.wordpress.com/2012/03/09/ww1-canadian-nursing-sister-uniform-part-1-service-dress/

BUT it does look like it might be part of some sort of uniform- note the epaulet (whatever its called) on the shoulder- with ? 2 ? pips. A Canadian Nursing sister had the rank of Lieutenant. 

[seaJane]

You know, I'd never noticed the epaulette before! Tsk me. I just assumed it was an ordinary greatcoat.