German Army regiments

[Alastair Fraser]

Dear All

I would be grateful if anybody could give me information on three German Army infantry regiments that I am interested in, particularly date of formation, place of formation, shoulder strap piping colour and type of cuffs (Brandenberg, Swedish etc)

These are 185 IR (formed 1915 I think in Baden), 186 IR (also 1915 formation, place unknown), and 65 RIR (formed August 1914). 185 IR and 65 RIR served with 208 Division. 185 and 186 IR have published histories of which the IWM has copies. I have no record of a history for 65 RIR.

Regards

Alastair Fraser

[AOK4]

Hello,

IR 185 was formed from 18.5 to 6.6.1915 with 5 Cies from Baden, 2 from the Hanseatic cities and 1 from Magdeburg. The MGC was formed from soldiers from Eastern Prussia, Brandenburg and Westphalia. However, the Ersatz 'recruits) came from baden so from the time at the Somme on, the regiment was almost purely from Baden.

IR 186 was Hessian and formed from the 13th and 14th Cies from IR 80, 81, 87, 116, 115 and 117 on 18 May 1915 in the region Roye, Nesle, Pertain.

RIR 65 was formed on mobilisation (I guess from IR 65).

About the uniform: you want the details at which time in the war? The Germans had simplified uniforms as the war progressed so piping and differneces in cuffs etc were dropped, although older models remained in use.

Jan

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

The 186th IR was formed using the 13th and 14th Companies from IR 80, 81, 87, 116, 115, 117. The regiment was formed on 18 May 1915 through orders from the Headquarters of the XVIII Army Corps.

The I Battalion was formed in Roye, the II Battalion in Nesle and the III Battalion in Pertain. The battalions were brought together in the vicinity of St. Quentin in late May until early June where the regimental formation was completed.

In looking through the regimental photos I noted that some men wore uniforms with the Brandenburg cuff while others wore the standard issue wartime field blouse with a straight sleeve and cuff, no markings whatsoever.

I cannot make out the piping on the shoulder straps, I will see what I can find through other sources. However, the XVIII Corps units had a light blue piping on their shoulder straps and since the units that made up the 186th IR were from this corps it might have used the same color.

Ralph

[Alastair Fraser]

Dear Jan and Ralph

Thank you both for such swift and informative replies. I am interested particularly in the shoulder strap piping present on the M1910 Waffenrock for these units although with 1915 raised units it is possible as you say that many men wore the new 1915 Bluse.

My reason for asking is that two German soldiers were recovered during an archaeological dig at the Heidenkopf/Quadilateral position south of Serre in October and I am trying to narrow down their regiments. Other evidence including a badly corroded identity disc and the arrangement of buttons on Swedish cuffs points to one of these men being from 7 Kompanie, 121st Reserve Infantry Regiment, which was raised in Wurttemburg; the other is a senior NCO although his regiment is not known. They were both killed in 1915 or 1916. Fragments of scarlet shoulder strap piping survive. I have established which regiments were in the area during the relevant period and my idea is to get the piping colour and cuff pattern so I can eliminate some from my enquiries. 185 and 186 IR are not prime candidates but if they were formed from miscellaneous existing companies from other regiments the uniforms could have been a bit of a mixture and those men with M1910 tunics might have had a variety of piping.

Any help you can give is appreciated and will be properly acknowledged.

Regards

Alastair

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

Hello Alastair,

Thank you for the details of your inquiries, it is always nice to know why someone is looking for information. The red piping could easily be the 121st Reserve Regiment. The XIII and XIV Corps used red piping. This would probably pass along to the reserve corps attached that had men who came from these corps.

I would be glad to provide whatever help I might offer. I have a full list of the casualties for the regiments of the XIV Reerve Corps (except the 99th Reserve, only a partial list).

I would also love to hear more about the archeological finds at the site and of course any final public report of the entire project. Keep us advised, please.

Ralph

[Alastair Fraser]

Dear Ralph and Jan

Again thanks for the replies. The dig will be seen on "Journey to Hell" which is being broadcast on BBC2 in Britain at 8.00pm on March 13th. I am not going to be able to get to the preview so I cannot say exactly what the programme contains. It is about Wilfred Owen's short time in a dugout in this area upon which he based his poem "The Sentry".

I intend to tape it and could (compatability allowing) probably supply a tape or two for those overseas who are interested. Both this dig and the better known operations in Avril William's garden at Auchonvillers will hopefully be the subject of publication this year. We are intending to get a new website going shortly, although there are some not particularly up to date or complete details of previous campaigns at Auchonvillers to be found at www.timetravellers.org/Ocean/Ocean.htm.

I will keep you posted on future developments.

Regards

Alastair