Paul Hederer Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Paul I was hoping I would be able to dig up some reference material more definitive, so far my research has gotten me Zip! Geo George, This has been a long thread--are you still looking for material on the Rekruten-Depots? Your individual soldiers? It has been a good thread. I hadn't been aware of the mixing of Landwehr and Landsturm categories in active regiments--I found that very interesting. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 17 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Yes it was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 17 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Another photo this time of Ersatz Btn LIR 18 Rekruten Depot - armed w/ Gew 88's. Cancellation Culm, Feb. 28, 1915. Almost all rekruten wearing feldgrau stahlblech pickelhauben. The drill instructor is in the back row, center one with dienst mutze. To his right a rekrut wears a black stahlblech or a M95 pickelhaube. To his left a rekreut wearing the M95 waffenrock, has a stenciled uberzug. All have M1909 ammo pouches. L.I.R. 18 -Osterode/East Prussia ( I.Btn), Prussian Eylau (II Btn.), Marienburg (III Btn.) and Lötzen (IV Btn.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerookery Posted 18 April , 2008 Share Posted 18 April , 2008 I was hoping I would be able to dig up some reference material more definitive, so far my research has gotten me Zip! George I do not think you will find a reference. Someday I will finish this tome. All or almost all of the references that I am aware of are way too simplistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerookery Posted 18 April , 2008 Share Posted 18 April , 2008 Hi, I don't think it is the same. Brigade Ersatz Bns were raised by the first line regiments. Reserve Ersatz Bns were formed in the depots of the Reserve regiments. ...and Ersatz-Reserve was something else again. Regards, CNOCK okay George once more into the breach -- there was a big difference in these even though they sound similar. Remember that the Army Corps District was broken down into brigade areas -- remember the brigade collar dogs on early Landsturm pictures? Originally the concept was that these brigade battalions would be used to provide replacements for several Landsturm battalions. But again it got dicey -- not all of the brigade's formed them and they were often combined to create a maneuver unit!! Recently, historians have brought into question the entire Schlieffen Plan story. Terrence Zuber, in his book "Inventing the Schlieffen Plan." Makes the assertion that there never was a Schlieffen plan. What is clear is that the 1905 Denkschrift, written by Schlieffen envisioned a one front war where all of the German forces were launched in a hammer to pin the French army against Switzerland. There was no mention of 40 days and a timetable associated with it. And there were also eight make-believe Ersatz Corps that beefed up the right wing of the German Army. Schlieffen envisioned 82 divisions going into the right wing alone out of a total army strength of 79 divisions. If you count the nonexistent ersatz Corps, Schlieffen required 96 divisions when there were only 62 available in 1905 and 79.5 in 1914. Zuber questions whether or not Schlieffen ever considered such an ambitious wheel to be the final plan. It is clear from maneuvers and plans after the time of Schlieffen that the Germans were not always sure whether they were going to march against the Russians or against the French first. Dogma has it that the reason the Germans lost is because Moltke, the Chief of Staff, had watered down the right wing and reinforced the left wing, as well as having sent two corps to Russia during the 40 days. Zuber takes exception to Herwig's timetable, claiming that in 40 days the wheel around Paris, could not have been accomplished. There were really small battalions made up of these guys at mobilization. They were built around brigade headquarters. Initially there were over 90. One of Schlieffen's pet ideas was to use these battalions as maneuver units. These units had absolutely no service support establishment. They were purely men with rifles and had few officers. No supply, medical or other essential support elements. The purpose of an ersatz battalion was to give replacements to their regiments. If an ersatz battalion became a maneuver unit it could not perform this function. Nonetheless, they were needed by 1914, and eventually you got Ersatz divisions. Initially these were used close to the German frontier border. A reserve ersatz Battalion was one found in a reserve regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 18 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2008 So Reserve Ersatz were for the Reserves? One less mystery. Wonder if there is a list of what Batlns. went to what R.I.R.'s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 19 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 19 April , 2008 This is a general guide -- there are many exceptions. Joe This breakdown of an Ersatz Batln. = 3 - 4 Esatz Co. = Convalescent Co. (returning wounded of a Regt. from Lazerette) Company of men fit for only Garrison Duty ( physically unable to return to the Front?) Trained Rekruten - moved up from Rekrut-Depots ( 1 Co. each from a Depot?) Is my understanding right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 19 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Joe, You could be exactly right. The fact that I found it in a word file looking somewhat HTML tells me I found it on the internet somewhere, so we don't know who wrote it! This is a subject I know very little about, and I've seen little in print to go on....not "sexy" enough I guess to warrant it's own section in some book on the German Army. Paul I found that source that Paul used for his Ersatz Btn. quote, it is from re-enactor.net : http://www.reenactor.net/ww1/morsels/fsc/ersaztwesen.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joerookery Posted 19 April , 2008 Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Is my understanding right? \ I think that is a good general guide but there are always exceptions. I'm glad you found the article! There are a lot of good things in there but also a few mistakes. The ersatz battalion organization that I referred to earlier is indeed wrong as well as a few other things. But lots of good information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 10 August , 2008 Share Posted 10 August , 2008 HI George, Cheers! Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliecoyote Posted 10 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 10 August , 2008 Nice pic Cnock! Gives a good glimpse of the feldgrau oilcloth of his M1914 Wachstuchmutze worn by this Saxon Landsturm soldat. I like it! Geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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