What WW1 books are you reading?

[stiletto_33853]

Well the original book containing his letters "Letters from Flanders" is a total of 80 pages long and that contains 10 pages of Memorial notices from the Times, School and people that knew him. I am sorry that you find the book "disappointing & tedious" after all he was only at the front from late May to September 25th, 1915. I had a lot to do with the book assisting Jon on the 9th RB side, the battle etc. and was quite happy with the final product having read, re-read, making suggestions on original drafts etc. With an officer surviving 4 months at the front before his unfortunate demise I am not sure what you were expecting, and yes the family side is full.

To be honest thats the first negative remark I have heard about it, but there again I also found books like "Have you Forgotten yet" tedious and one that I put down very quickly, never to be read again. However, I have an interest in Hugh. The suggestion or project regarding the book was put forward by the old school in New Zealand where he was a teacher as to if it was viable and opinions sought.

 

Andy

Edited 2 March , 2018 by stiletto_33853

[Black Maria]

24 minutes ago, stiletto_33853 said:

Well the original book containing his letters "Letters from Flanders" is a total of 80 pages long and that contains 10 pages of Memorial notices from the Times, School and people that knew him. I am sorry that you find the book "disappointing & tedious" after all he was only at the front from late May to September 25th, 1915. I had a lot to do with the book assisting Jon on the 9th RB side, the battle etc. and was quite happy with the final product having read, re-read, making suggestions on original drafts etc. With an officer surviving 4 months at the front before his unfortunate demise I am not sure what you were expecting, and yes the family side is full.

To be honest thats the first negative remark I have heard about it, but there again I also found books like "Have you Forgotten yet" tedious and one that I put down very quickly, never to be read again. However, I have an interest in Hugh. The suggestion or project regarding the book was put forward by the old school in New Zealand where he was a teacher as to if it was viable and opinions sought.

 

Andy

I am sure it is a fine tribute to Hugh Butterworth and a lot of people have and will enjoy reading it . I have just found it rather hard going as I'm not really

into the minute details of battles and most of that went over my head . Others will no doubt find that part of great interest , I'm just not one of them . I'm still

glad that I purchased the book and am looking forward to reading Hugh's letters .

[stiletto_33853]

I hope that you enjoy Hugh's letters. I also am a fan of memoirs, diaries etc in their original format, and there are some marvellous examples out there without the modern perspective. The original "Letters From Flanders" was quite basic without any thrills and definitely needed a little tweak to tell his story, what he went through etc. As to whether that story went in too much depth is for the reader to decide.

 

Andy

Edited 2 March , 2018 by stiletto_33853

[Black Maria]

4 minutes ago, stiletto_33853 said:

I hope that you enjoy Hugh's letters. I also am a fan of memoirs, diaries etc in their original format, and there are some marvellous examples out there without the modern perspective. The original "Letters From Flanders" was quite basic without any thrills and definitely needed a little tweak to tell his story, what he went through etc. As to whether that story went in too much depth is for the reader.

 

Andy

Yes , I think personally I would have preferred the reprinted letters with just a brief overview of his life and his last battle . I am no doubt

the exception rather than the rule though and I do appreciate the time and effort that must have gone into researching and writing such a

detailed book and , after all is said and done , it is a worthy tribute to Hugh and his short life.

 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All, and Andy,

When recently visiting Stratford-upon-Avon from sw Germany, I bought a swag of books to take home. One of these was "Blood & Iron" (I would have preferred "Letters from the Western Front", or simply "Hugh Montagu Butterworth", but that is neither here nor there.)

Frankly, one gained the impression that if anyone deserved to survive the 'vile, stinking mess, a stupid and disgusting massacre of men caught in the incompetent tangle of international politics' (Brian Masters), then that was Hugh Montagu Butterworth. 

I was struck with his decency and obvious sense of honour, and had the feeling that (despite the fact that my grandfather, a decorated AIF officer who survived, wounded), such personalities were largely blotted out by the Great War.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[Paul bardell]

 

 

I have two books on the go at the moment:

 

1) Tho Old Contemptibles by Robin Neillands

2) How Young they Died by Stuart Cloete

 

 

Enjoying both.

 

 

[stiletto_33853]

On 3/2/2018 at 13:35, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

 

Frankly, one gained the impression that if anyone deserved to survive the 'vile, stinking mess, a stupid and disgusting massacre of men caught in the incompetent tangle of international politics' (Brian Masters), then that was Hugh Montagu Butterworth. 

I was struck with his decency and obvious sense of honour, and had the feeling that (despite the fact that my grandfather, a decorated AIF officer who survived, wounded), such personalities were largely blotted out by the Great War.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Thanks Kim,

A story only to be regularly repeated in 1915 with the loss to this nation of some undoubtedly decent and honourable men who would have excelled in later life.

 

Presently reading "The German 1918 Offensives" a case study in the operational level of war by David Zabecki

 

Andy

Edited 8 March , 2018 by stiletto_33853

[PMHart]

I really liked the book. Here was my review from - I think - Stand To!

 

This book is based on a collection of letters written by Hugh Butterworth which had a very limited publication in 1916 as LETTERS, written in the trenches near Ypres between May and September 1915, by H. M. Butterworth, 9th Rifle Brigade, who fell in action on September 25, 1915’. It is a truism that some editors add little of worth to collections of letters or diaries and I was indeed a little worried to see mention of John Laffin early in the introduction! But have no fear - Cooksey administers a thorough kicking whilst exposing Laffin's deliberate misquoting of Butterworth in the farrago that is Butchers and Bunglers. Indeed throughout Cooksey demonstrates a sound appreciation of operational history and the terrible problems posed by war against the formidable German Army on the Western Front in 1915; as such he offers neither trite 'solutions' nor maudlin musings. He also adds value to the letters by adding the often baleful insights of Buttterworth's battalion commander, the delightfully 'crusty' Lieutenant Colonel William Villiers-Stuart.

 

The letters chart the effects of that terrible conflict and the severe fighting experienced by the 9th Rifle Brigade in the Ypres Salient - including the murderous German flamethrower attack of 30 July 1915. It is evident that Butterworth suffered some personal trauma and was prey to growing nerves - how could it be otherwise? This is no warrior, but a schoolmaster trying his best in near impossible circumstances. The letters themselves are wonderful: well written, insightful, intelligent and amusing. As such it is a credit to Cooksey's own writing style that the qualities of his subject's prose have not left him embarrassed. But Cooksey has also done a great deal of work to present a rounded picture of the man. He has trawled to great effect through Butterworth's life, filling out the background details: his childhood, his education and sporting prowess, his pre-war teaching and cricket coaching at the Wanganui Collegiate School of New Zealand. As a flailing (failing?) cricketer I found it touching to see that six of the eleven 13-year-old lads that made up the Hazelwood Preparatory School First Cricket XI of 1899 were killed in action during the Great War. There is indeed definitely a strain of the typical P. G. Wodehousian character in Butterworth, who at times taps into the same vein of studied comic understatement in describing what is referred to as 'the recent unpleasantness in France' in the classic Indiscretions of Archie. I also empathise with what is described as Butterworth's ‘slouching gait and lackadaisical manner’; although his Colonel seems not to have been quite so enamoured!

 

The last letter is a tragic document. Having sketched out the daunting sequence of dangerous military tasks lying before him during the diversionary attack on Bellewaarde Ridge to be made on 25 September, Butterworth reacts in a manner which stands as a testament to his determination. "Well, when one is faced with a programme like that, one touches up one’s will, thanks heaven one has led a fairly amusing life, thanks God one is not married, and trusts in Providence." His last words prove that hope does indeed spring eternal, "Perhaps I shan’t be killed!!’?" But 'Providence', as is so often the case, let him down.

 

Cooksey provides a wonderful account of that now almost forgotten 'action' at Bellewaarde Ridge, dwarfed by the long shadow of the Battle of Loos. The planning process had been detailed, the preparations meticulous. Mines lay ready for detonation at Zero Hour and the supporting bombardment was the best possible given the artillery constraints of 1915. But when they went over the top at 04.20 on 25 September the result was still disaster. Using all possible sources and with German accounts woven into the picture, we get a good idea of what happened to Butterworth and the men that followed him. Initial partial success merely left then more isolated when the inevitable German counter-attacks burst upon them. Poignantly Cooksey quotes the increasingly desperate pencil messages from subalterns for more bombs and bombers; messages still blotted with the raindrops which fell so long ago; messages still preserved in the National Archives. Somewhere in this maelstrom Hugh Butterworth was killed and the remnants of the 9th Rifle Brigade were thrown back to their own front line - not an inch of ground had been captured. Like so many of his comrades he has no known grave and is commemorated on the Menin Gate.

 

Hugh Butterworth surely had the noblest form of courage: he knew what was likely to happen to him that morning yet faced it unflinchingly. Like all those young men he had a lot to lose, as he put it so eloquently in a letter written in July 1915, "I’m not particularly afraid of death, but I dislike the thought of dying because I enjoy life so much, and I want to enjoy it such a lot more." It is truly moving to think of this very likeable 29-year old - doomed to die young by his date of birth - who knowingly sacrificed all his precious tomorrows for the enduring benefit of us all. A brilliant book.

 

 

So i Liked it it loads, but of course each to their own! 

 

Hope you enjoy the letters section!

 

Pete

Edited 3 March , 2018 by PMHart

[Black Maria]

Thanks , yes I am enjoying reading them . Maybe I should have read them first to bring Hugh ' to life ' so to speak and then the rest of the book afterwards .

[Waddell]

I recently finished ‘Two Wheels To War’ by Martin and Nick Shelley. The book is based around Captain WHL (Willie) Watson’s ‘Adventures of a Despatch Rider’ and twelve of those original men who provided themselves and their motorcycles at the service of the BEF in August 1914. The first part of the book consists of ‘Adventures of a Despatch Rider’ in its early form, which slipped past the censor’s eye before being banned. The subsequent edition was heavily edited and the authors use footnotes to indicate what was omitted.

 

‘Adventures of a Despatch Rider’ is an interesting read from the early part of the war and worth reading for the sense of immediacy and the constantly changing situations  the BEF found itself in during the initial retreat and the later actions at the Aisne. Watson was a good writer with an eye for detail. The second part of the book consists of letters and articles written by the twelve original despatch riders as described in the book (whom the authors identified largely from a collection of photographs they purchased from the collection of the Burnley brothers) and a final section delving into the details of the rider’s lives and the machines they used.

 

It was intriguing to read that the Burnley brothers, the spanner men, took two Blackburne motorcycles with them to France that they had built and ridden at the TT prior to the war. There were several TT riders and the odd TT machine amongst the original despatch riders. Another fact I was not aware of was that the Wanderer motorcycle used by the Germans was also used by the French.

 

The letters and articles are interesting and the authors tie them into the events of ‘Adventures of a Despatch Rider’. Watson later served in the tanks and wrote another book of those experiences and interestingly he later serialised his despatch riding experiences again for Blackwood’s magazine. He wrote the articles in the third person as ‘gas-pipe officer’ in ‘Tales of a gas-pipe officer’ and in my opinion the writing style he adopted for these stories lost a lot of the readability and freshness of his original style.

 

A paragraph that caught my eye towards the end of ‘Adventures of a Despatch Rider’ centres on an Ypres local talking about the recent destruction of the city-

 

‘You see, sir, that our Cathedral is shattered and the cloth hall a ruin. May those devils, the dirty Germans, roast in hell! But after the war we shall be the richest city in Belgium. All England will flock to Ypres. Is it not a monstrous cemetery? Are there not woods and villages and farms at which the brave English have fought like lions to earn for themselves eternal fame, and for the city an added glory? The good God gives his compensations after great wars. There will be many to buy our lace and fill our restaurants’

 

How prophetic. A good read.

  

Scott

[Bernard_Lewis]

On the topic of letters, the well-to-do mum of the chap I am researching at present kept everything. I was reading a letter he sent her from prep school, aged 10:

 

How is the Prime Minister?

 

That was DLG who was a pal of his mum.

 

In later life the King pinned an MC on him (World War Two) while Princess Elizabeth took him to Sandringham for tea with her parents after his car broke down...

 

Interesting chap, I hope to write his biography.

 

Bernard

Edited 3 March , 2018 by Bernard_Lewis

[hazelclark]

On 2018-03-02 at 02:56, Black Maria said:

I am about two thirds of the way through reading ' Blood & Iron : Letters From The Western Front ' ( P&S 2011 )  and i must say that I am quite disappointed

with it so far . Being a lover of memoirs , diaries etc and a person who finds the more 'academic' Great War books quite boring I have found it quite tedious

struggling through nearly 150 pages which chart Hugh Butterworth's sporting achievements ( I find sport quite boring as well ) and the minutiae of the battle

in which Hugh died. The book is 234 pages long and his actual letters are contained in only 44 pages ( the letters were originally published in 1916 ) . I am sure

though that I will enjoy reading his letters when I eventually get there ( only 20 pages to go now !)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am reading a book that made me think of your post. It is called “Nursing Through Shot and Shell” which contains the memoirs of a Territorial nurse Beatrice Hopkinson.  I found the first bit by the editor (a physician) about medical services quite interesting.  However, There is so much about the lives of people in whom I have little interest that I am wondering when I am ever going to get to the actual diary. Forty seven pages of a book of 133 pages is filler.  

I have come to the conclusion that prior to the centenary all kinds of diaries were dusted off and, not really having sufficient content for a book, a lot of background is spun out.  Some interesting and some not so much.  Maybe a good thing for people who know little about the war, but I think I have graduated a bit.

 

Hazel C.

[Black Maria]

6 hours ago, hazelclark said:

I am reading a book that made me think of your post. It is called “Nursing Through Shot and Shell” which contains the memoirs of a Territorial nurse Beatrice Hopkinson.  I found the first bit by the editor (a physician) about medical services quite interesting.  However, There is so much about the lives of people in whom I have little interest that I am wondering when I am ever going to get to the actual diary. Forty seven pages of a book of 133 pages is filler.  

I have come to the conclusion that prior to the centenary all kinds of diaries were dusted off and, not really having sufficient content for a book, a lot of background is spun out.  Some interesting and some not so much.  Maybe a good thing for people who know little about the war, but I think I have graduated a bit.

 

Hazel C.

Yes, the centenary book market is a bit of a minefield . I try and be selective nowadays with the new books I buy and so far have been quite lucky .

 It is difficult without actually seeing the book to know how much is filler, so I do look on Amazon and the net to try and gain an idea beforehand .

I try and leave reviews on Amazon after I have read a book so that others will have an idea of what to expect if they buy it . There is nothing

more annoying though than when you are interested in a book and there is just one review which just says something like " Great Item !"

and of course even if there are more detailed reviews , what some people find brilliant others may not find so impressive and vice versa .

 

 

 

[hazelclark]

On 2018-03-02 at 02:56, Black Maria said:

I am about two thirds of the way through reading ' Blood & Iron : Letters From The Western Front ' ( P&S 2011 )  and i must say that I am quite disappointed

with it so far . Being a lover of memoirs , diaries etc and a person who finds the more 'academic' Great War books quite boring I have found it quite tedious

struggling through nearly 150 pages which chart Hugh Butterworth's sporting achievements ( I find sport quite boring as well ) and the minutiae of the battle

in which Hugh died. The book is 234 pages long and his actual letters are contained in only 44 pages ( the letters were originally published in 1916 ) . I am sure

though that I will enjoy reading his letters when I eventually get there ( only 20 pages to go now !)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am reading a book that made me think of your post. It is called “Nursing Through Shot and Shell” which contains the memoirs of a Territorial nurse Beatrice Hopkinson.  I found the first bit by the editor (a physician) about medical services quite interesting.  However, There is so much about the lives of people in whom I have little interest that I am wondering when I am ever going to get to the actual diary. Forty seven pages of a book of 133 pages is filler.  

I have come to the conclusion that prior to the centenary all kinds of diaries were dusted off and, not really having sufficient content for a book, a lot of background is spun out.  Some interesting and some not so much.  Maybe a good thing for people who know little about the war, but I think I have graduated a bit.

 

Hazel C.

Edited 6 March , 2018 by hazelclark
No idea how to delete this! Sorry!

[Coldstreamer]

"nobody better" by Helen Charlesworth.  Life of robin blacker, coldstream guards . Tried before but couldn't get into it.  Probably because I just want to get to the ww1 bit

[Black Maria]

27 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said:

"nobody better" by Helen Charlesworth.  Life of robin blacker, coldstream guards . Tried before but couldn't get into it.  Probably because I just want to get to the ww1 bit

Prompted by this thread I have now started  'Have You forgotten yet ? ' . Another book I found hard going at first was ' Henry Dundas , Scots Guard '

the first fifty odd pages of which are about his childhood and time at Eton and , like 'Blood and Iron' , it wasn't until I got to his letters that the book

became interesting.

[squirrel]

Of Those We Loved by I L Read. Leicesters and then commissioned Royal Sussex. A thoroughly absorbing book.

[Black Maria]

4 minutes ago, squirrel said:

Of Those We Loved by I L Read. Leicesters and then commissioned Royal Sussex. A thoroughly absorbing book.

One of my favourites .Before it was reprinted by P&S , the first edition was very hard to find and expensive .

[Coldstreamer]

HYFY is in my top 5 books

[Dust Jacket Collector]

3 hours ago, Black Maria said:

One of my favourites .Before it was reprinted by P&S , the first edition was very hard to find and expensive .

Is that the Pentland press edition from 1994 or was there an earlier appearance?

[Black Maria]

51 minutes ago, Dust Jacket Collector said:

Is that the Pentland press edition from 1994 or was there an earlier appearance?

Yes Alan , that's the one .

[BIFFO]

I read it years ago, have read it again an excellent account of wat

the war the infantry knew 1914-1919 

captain j.c. dunn 

have yet to read

sisters of the somme  stories from ww1 field hospital 

penny starns  the history press

 

[Tom Kilkenny]

Just finished Bernard Adams'  'Nothing of Importance', a Christmas present from my brother.  Superb and I can't believe I hadn't been aware of it before!

 

Can anyone suggest what I should read next, along the same lines?  I've read 'Goodbye to All That' of course and have resisted Sassoon so far.

 

Ta.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Don’t resist Sassoon - Fox-Hunting Man and Infantry Officer are excellent and more reliable than Graves.

[Tom Kilkenny]

Thanks DJC.  Sassoon it is then.