Canadian Looking for a Leprechaun, perhaps 2 or more

[laughton]

Dear Pals of the GWF:

As a result of the GWF I have made contact with my counterparts who still reside in Ireland. My Second Cousin Richard (I know that now) was researching his Great Uncle (who is my Grandfather) and he found my web site on Josiah Kennedy. That contains a copy of the detailed report that Chris Baker did for me, plus all the records from Canada and the United Kingdom.

For my grandfather's web site I was able to find a great deal of information on his time in the CEF (Princess Patricia's) and the BEF (Royal Irish Rifles). Although the UK National Archives spelled his name incorrectly, I did track him down. I was also able to track down his brother William Kennedy who was killed in action and thus is on the CWGC.

William Kennedy CWGC #14/16657

Strangely enough, I can not find William Kennedy on the UK National Archives, and I am sure I have gone through every possible combination. The best I could do was come up with a William Kennedy that has a truncated version of that number:

William Kennedy UK NA #14/166

My question on this one is whether anyone knows if the numbers went as low #166 and so is this a reasonable lead to follow - or does someone have a way to check that name. The parent to all these Kennedy boys was the Reverend S. G. (Samuel Guiler) Kennedy of the Grosvenor Road Reformed Presbyterian Church. That is shown on the CWGC certificate for William Kennedy.

If that is not my man, then does anyone have an answer as to why he would be on the CWGC site as a member of the 14th Royal Irish Rifles if he is not on the UK National Archives?

The question of William Kennedy missing from the UK National Archives was a secondary find while undertaking the main hunt which was to locate another brother JAMES KENNEDY. I have no information on a second name but the family in Ireland believes that he too was killed in the Great War. The fact that nobody knows anything about him seems to confirm that, as there is knowledge on the rest of the family. I have hunted down all the JAMES KENNEDY names on the CWGC site and can not find one that has any relationship to the family in Belfast. I have done that using the CWGC main search, the Geoff Search and the all powerful Google Search of the CWGC site. Nothing.

Back at the UK National Archives I can across what I thought were two (2) possible James Kennedy lads as both are in the 14th Royal Irish Rifles:

James Kennedy 14/16668 (close to William number, perhaps they enlisted together?)

James Kennedy 14/15070

The second James Kennedy appears also in the Royal Air Force and died during the Great War (CWGC Link). If my geography is correct, that man came from Scotland.

So my next question is whether there is a way to track down which JAMES KENNEDY came from Belfast and was the son of Samuel Guiler Kennedy? From looking at the GENUKI web site it appears that all the Irish Census Records were destroyed at some time in the past.

There was another brother MAURICE KENNEDY and there are two of them on the UK National Archives. I do not even know if he was in the forces but I am presuming that almost every able bodied man was in the UK forces at that time.

I was sure that with all these brothers something would have jumped right out of the searches. The lack of William on the UK National Archives however, makes me think I am missing something somewhere. And no sign of James. Where are my Leprechauns?

[grantowi]

Hows this one ?

Regiment, Corps etc.: Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment (Royal Canadians)

Battalion etc.: 2nd Battalion.

Last name: Kennedy

First name(s): James

Initials: J

Birthplace: Belfast

Enlisted: Belfast

Residence: Belfast

Rank: PRIVATE

Number: 1593

Date died: 08 July 1918

How died: Died

Theatre of war: France & Flanders

Grant

[AlanCurragh]

Richard - let me introduce you to William Kennedy 14/16657 - a page from my website honouring the old boys of the Royal Belfast Academical Institution who died in the Great War...

http://instgreatwar.com/page15.htm

I've also got a James Kennedy on the same page of my website but I don't know much about him other than what is on the webpage. Every chance he could be the brother you are looking for though. Because he is an officer, he will have a file at the PRO at Kew, but there are 14 J Kennedy's listed so it will take a while to track down the correct file and confirm if he is your man.

I can also confirm that J A C Kennedy went to the school as well - I have him listed in the Roll of Honour as having been wounded, and as having been a prisoner of war. I also have a photo of him from the school magazine.

Regards

Alan

[laughton]

Alan:

Thanks so much for that link and those photographs! You have made this a wonderful St. Patrick's Day for the family here in Canada. I did not mention in the earlier post that the reason we did not have any pictures or information on the Kennedy boys is that our family home was burnt to the ground in June 1967 and all the Kennedy records were destroyed, at least those left in Canada. My mother (Maureen Montgomery Kennedy) appeared to be the one entrusted with the heirlooms. He brother Guiler, who lived in B.C. where they were all raised had paper works but no other records.

There are no other pictures of Grandfather Kennedy other than the one post 1918 that is on my website so your school picture of him will quickly make the rounds here in Canada. I do intend to capture it and add it to his web site and as always I will give you full credit for the find. I am not sure if they have pictures of William in Belfast but I will let them know of this as well.

I now have to go and look at what each of you and Grant has put up about the missing brother James.

THREE CHEERS FOR THE GREAT WAR FORUM AND ALL THE PALS WHO HELP FIND SOLUTIONS!

Now if anyone ever asks "is there anything magic about a Leprechaun, I can honestly answer that question - YES!

And thanks to Grandson Michael who has taught us all "Never Hesitate to Ask a Question"! So now I must "Pay it Forward" and go help some others in their great search.

Thanks forever,

Richard of Canada

Home of the Guinness Import

[curranl]

Hi Richard,

both men are recorded in Ireland's Memorial Records, but their entries may confuse rather than help!

Kennedy, William, Reg. No. 16657. Rank, Rifleman, 14th Royal Irish Rifles. Killed in Action, France June 7th, 1917. Born Wishaw, Lanarkshire.

Kennedy, James, Reg, no. 16658. Rank, Rifleman 14th Royal Irish Rifles. Killed in Action, France July 1st, 1916. Born Glenavy, Co. Antrim.

There are a few other William Kennedys and James Kennedys in the Records. Send me a PM and I'll email the entries on to you.

Regards,

Liam.

[SteveE]

William Kennedy CWGC #14/16657

Strangely enough, I can not find William Kennedy on the UK National Archives, and I am sure I have gone through every possible combination. The best I could do was come up with a William Kennedy that has a truncated version of that number:

William Kennedy UK NA #14/166

My question on this one is whether anyone knows if the numbers went as low #166 and so is this a reasonable lead to follow - or does someone have a way to check that name. The parent to all these Kennedy boys was the Reverend S. G. (Samuel Guiler) Kennedy of the Grosvenor Road Reformed Presbyterian Church. That is shown on the CWGC certificate for William Kennedy.

NA #14/166 is a Mis-transcription, notice the 57 part disappears under the medal reference box. This is his Card as 14/16657....

Steve

[laughton]

Thanks Steve, that is a great help. That is a great quality image. Any of the ones I have got off the web are fuzzy greyscale images. That looks like an original!! That takes one man of the list.

Thanks Liam and I agree with your comment. I initially thought that since that James Kennedy was only 1 digit difference from the known William Kennedy that it had to be two brothers that went to the enlistment office together. When I saw that James #16658 had the wrong parents I was disappointed and confused. However, others suggested that they might have just put all the Kennedy's in a file and then assigned the numbers, or it may be coincidence. I guess I always have to assume that the file might be in error as well and the information has been crossed. That is one advantage of our Canadian Great War records in that we can get the Attestation Papers on-line and for free - so the process of elimination is much easier.

The other James Kennedy that Alan had listed does not have any family shown on his CWGC certificate so the only link there is the school where it appears that Josiah, William and James were students. However, I would also have to assume that there might just be another "James Kennedy" at that school.

Thanks for the offer to send the others - I will send you a PM as requested.

Richard

p.s. I am glad that the Leprechaun could count on his Pals!

[laughton]

I was pleased to see that the UK National Archives not only corrected the entry data for the MIC but also replied to tell me that it had been done. Three cheers for them!

From: Dickinson, Robert [mailto:@nationalarchives.gov.uk] On Behalf Of DocumentsOnline

Sent: March-20-08 10:50 AM

To: rlaughton@gmail.com

Subject: DocumentsOnline

Dear Mr. Richard Laughton,

Thank you for your e-mail.

We have passed the details of this possible error to our transcription team, who have investigated this enquiry and have agreed that '14/166' should be indexed as '14/16657'. Any changes made will then be viewable online within the next few weeks.

If you have any further problems please don't hesitate to contact us.

Yours sincerely,

DocumentsOnline Support Team Tel. no.: +44 ( 0 ) 20 8876 3444