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Remembered Today:

Brief Visit to Verdun


Gunner Bailey

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Christina Holstein is in the finishing stages of an excellent new book on Verdun (Battleground Europe), taking you on tours around the battlefield and explaining some of those decaying concrete ruins liberally scattered around the forests. I suppose there is another nine months or so to go before it sees the light of day.

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Christina Holstein is in the finishing stages of an excellent new book on Verdun (Battleground Europe), taking you on tours around the battlefield and explaining some of those decaying concrete ruins liberally scattered around the forests. I suppose there is another nine months or so to go before it sees the light of day.

In October 2006 I visited Verdun for the first time. I made the decision to hire a guide : there is so much there that you have to avoid the danger of tring to see everything, in which case you see nothing. Christina Holstein took us round, along with her friend Tony Noyes, and it was well worth the money. On the return journey we visited the Hill of Vauqois, and a more sinister, forbidding place I have never seen ! The lines are truly a few yards apart, the place is literally stuffed with relics of one kind or another, and it makes the mind reel to try and contemplate the sheer terror of serving in that sector. There is a small but striking memorial in the craters which commemorates the fate of the first French troops who suffered attacks by flamethrowers in the summer of 1915.

The atmosphere at Verdun is indeed striking, but the evocation at Vauqouis is even more intense.

Phil.

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  • 1 month later...

Since Nigel has given the game away, I suppose I'd better stop lurking in the shadows. My new book has taken up so much time that I haven't had time to check the Forum for a while. Thank you Nigel, I'm looking forward to seeing it in print. Thanks also to PJA. Tony and I remember our day with you with much pleasure.

'Must see' places include - as others have said - the Ossuary, Fort Douaumont, Fort Vaux, the Memorial and the destroyed village of Fleury. I suppose you also have to see the Trench of Bayonets but it is the ravine behind it, now densely forested, that is more interesting. If the weather is clear, climb the Ossuary tower to look at the view. Any walking path is worth taking, for the atmosphere if nothing else. Buy IGN map 3112 ET at the Memorial or in the forts/Ossuary and follow any of the marked walking paths. For a short walk, follow the path from the Ouvrage de Thiaumont to the Ouvrage de Froideterre via PC 120,119 and 118 and a gun battery. Another possibility would be to drive from the Memorial in the direction of Fort Vaux, pass the lion monument at the nearby crossroads and stop at the next Parking area, which signposts a Pamard Casemate. Have a look at the Casemate and then, using 3112 ET, follow the path round the back of Fort Souville to the 155mm gun turret and battery. It's not far and it's fascinating and you'll see other things along the way.

It's the views that matter. Always walk up to the top of the forts to look at the view. Stand with your back to the main door of the Ossuary and look to your right front for a square grey building in the middle of the forest, then look for the bump of trees on the skyline behind it. The trees cover Fort Souville - a dreadful ruin that you should on no account try to enter. The distance from the Ossuary to the bump of trees is about two miles in a straight line. The trees between you and Souville cover the heart of the battlefield - the famous lunar landscape. It represents months of fighting and it is no distance at all.

The firing range is used on Mondays and Tuesday. Any sites close to the range or paths that lead towards it are closed on those days - for example, you can't get to the site of the ruined village of Douaumont on Monday or Tuesday. On any day the mosquitoes are a menace, so make sure you've got insect repellent.

I notice in another thread that Paul Guthrie suggested getting into some of the forts on the Left Bank that are off-limits. Do not try it. The gendarmerie is more vigilant these days and any car parked in the vicinity of such sites is immediately checked. There have been plenty of accidents over the years, many of them fatal. Don't try Fort Tavannes either - that is regularly patrolled. In any case, it's not worth risking your life in it, or in Souville - or in any of the other old works either above ground or underground.

I'll have a look for the Danielo plaque, Michael. It doesn't ring a bell.

Well, I could go on for hours.....

Have a good Sunday,

Christina

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I have entered Souville Marre and Regret and it's obviously interesting but have to agree that it's dangerous and I'm not going to do it again for that reason, same with Tavannes Tunnel.

I do think you should see at least 1 left bank fort to see what they looked like, you can't tell from seeing Vaux Douamont or Souville.

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You can't see anything at all from Souville, worst luck. None of the Left Bank forts are visible from Douaumont or Vaux or from anywhere else on the Right Bank, indeed they aren't even visible from the Left Bank until you are actually in the trees that now surround each one. All the Left Bank forts are in army territory and used for training exercises. They are all patrolled regularly and I personally don't think seeing them is worth being arrested. It's a pity as they vary in building styles and in development. The first were built in 1875 and the last in - I think without getting the books out - 1901, so there is a huge difference and it's fascinating for fortress historians.

On the Right Bank you should see Douaumont and Vaux because of the part they played in the battle of 1916. You should see Froideterre fieldwork because it was only briefly touched by the Germans and the fact that they didn't manage to keep it had dire consequences for the rest of the battle. It is also an interesting design. Souville, Tavannes and Moulainville were all extremely important but what is left of them cannot be visited.

Now, if one had Microsoft-style money, political clout and an overall plan...just think what could be achieved.

Christina

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It had not occurred to me one could get arrested without going inside, too bad, well there are others in St Mihiel Salient and Malmaison on the Aisne and Pompelle in Champagne that are legal to see and the latter 2 can be entered legally.

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Just to let everyone know that I'm back from Verdun and will post a report and some photos soon. I did get to explore Le Mort Homme and saw some of the main sites plus a new exhibition in the town re the American contribution to the battles at the end of the war and their earlier assistance as Ambulance crews.

Gunner Bailey

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On the return journey we visited the Hill of Vauqois, and a more sinister, forbidding place I have never seen ! The lines are truly a few yards apart, the place is literally stuffed with relics of one kind or another, and it makes the mind reel to try and contemplate the sheer terror of serving in that sector. There is a small but striking memorial in the craters which commemorates the fate of the first French troops who suffered attacks by flamethrowers in the summer of 1915.

The atmosphere at Verdun is indeed striking, but the evocation at Vauqouis is even more intense.

Phil.

Quite interesting. The flame attacks at Vauqouis were probably only the second in the war. I knew that the fighting there was nasty, but have not gotten too much detail yet. Was there any information on that aspect on-site? The memorial has information? I assume that there are remaining traces of trhe mines exploded there.

Bob Lembke

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I'm looking forward to hearing about it, Gunner.

There's a wonderfully interesting short discovery path on the north side of the Mort-Homme. It is signposted 'Sentier de Découverte'. Did you take that? It's a great little walk for anyone who wants to get a feel for the hill.

Christina

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You can't see anything at all from Souville, worst luck. None of the Left Bank forts are visible from Douaumont or Vaux or from anywhere else on the Right Bank, indeed they aren't even visible from the Left Bank until you are actually in the trees that now surround each one. All the Left Bank forts are in army territory and used for training exercises. They are all patrolled regularly and I personally don't think seeing them is worth being arrested. It's a pity as they vary in building styles and in development. The first were built in 1875 and the last in - I think without getting the books out - 1901, so there is a huge difference and it's fascinating for fortress historians.

On the Right Bank you should see Douaumont and Vaux because of the part they played in the battle of 1916. You should see Froideterre fieldwork because it was only briefly touched by the Germans and the fact that they didn't manage to keep it had dire consequences for the rest of the battle. It is also an interesting design. Souville, Tavannes and Moulainville were all extremely important but what is left of them cannot be visited.

Now, if one had Microsoft-style money, political clout and an overall plan...just think what could be achieved.

Christina

The last time I was at Froideterre the entrance had been chained up. In any case there have been notices about the danger of going in for many years.

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I'm looking forward to hearing about it, Gunner.

There's a wonderfully interesting short discovery path on the north side of the Mort-Homme. It is signposted 'Sentier de Découverte'. Did you take that? It's a great little walk for anyone who wants to get a feel for the hill.

Christina

Hi Christine

I went off trail and explored!

GB ;)

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Here's my first update. In the town centre there is at present a special exhibition about the US involvement. Firstly as medics and then as combatants. Mostly it is photos and posters but there are also some fine exhibits. Here's some photos.

Gunner Bailey

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Here's my first update. In the town centre there is at present a special exhibition about the US involvement. Firstly as medics and then as combatants. Mostly it is photos and posters but there are also some fine exhibits. Here's some photos.

Gunner Bailey

And more. GB

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I'm looking forward to hearing about it, Gunner.

There's a wonderfully interesting short discovery path on the north side of the Mort-Homme. It is signposted 'Sentier de Découverte'. Did you take that? It's a great little walk for anyone who wants to get a feel for the hill.

Christina

Hi Christina

Here's a few photos from my walk.

For those who have not seen it, the scary memorial at the top of Le Mort-Homme. A length of German Trench complete with Jumping off points, North of the Sentier de Cumieres et du Mort homme, and some debris. I found about 300 metres of trench unmarked on the IGN map, in dense indisturbed forest. There were no foot paths to it and it was sheer jungle. I came out very wet an muddy to the knees.

Gunner Bailey

Some more photos.

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Hi Gunner,

Those are great photos and typical of the Mort-Homme. I bet you didn't meet anyone else on your walk. You obviously got back safely but it is a place to be really careful, as there are lots of holes to fall down and as you say the forest is just jungle. When walking, I always carry my grandfather's WWII special police whistle with me in the hope - perhaps vain - that if I needed help, someone would hear it. But there is almost never anyone around.

I'd suggest that the hollow in the trench in your first picture (with a bit of corrugated iron) is a collapsed dug-out entrance rather than a jumping off point but perhaps that's what you meant. If you follow the Sentier de Découverte along the northern slope of the Mort-Homme, it follows one of the main German trenches and there are lots of such collapsed entrances there.

I had a very odd experience beside that trench with an American visitor last February. It was a grey, cold day with low cloud and drizzle and he was taking lots of photos when he suddenly noticed that his last digital photo had a large white cotton-wooly shape across the middle of it. We turned back to look but there was nothing there and we weren't in mist. The shape didn't appear on earlier or on later photos. Maybe the camera played up suddenly but, if so, mine hasn't ever done that and his didn't do it again. It gave us an odd feeling.

Thanks for posting them. It's good to see the Mort-Homme getting some attention.

Christina

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Hi Gunner,

Those are great photos and typical of the Mort-Homme. I bet you didn't meet anyone else on your walk. You obviously got back safely but it is a place to be really careful, as there are lots of holes to fall down and as you say the forest is just jungle. When walking, I always carry my grandfather's WWII special police whistle with me in the hope - perhaps vain - that if I needed help, someone would hear it. But there is almost never anyone around.

I'd suggest that the hollow in the trench in your first picture (with a bit of corrugated iron) is a collapsed dug-out entrance rather than a jumping off point but perhaps that's what you meant. If you follow the Sentier de Découverte along the northern slope of the Mort-Homme, it follows one of the main German trenches and there are lots of such collapsed entrances there.

I had a very odd experience beside that trench with an American visitor last February. It was a grey, cold day with low cloud and drizzle and he was taking lots of photos when he suddenly noticed that his last digital photo had a large white cotton-wooly shape across the middle of it. We turned back to look but there was nothing there and we weren't in mist. The shape didn't appear on earlier or on later photos. Maybe the camera played up suddenly but, if so, mine hasn't ever done that and his didn't do it again. It gave us an odd feeling.

Thanks for posting them. It's good to see the Mort-Homme getting some attention.

Christina

Hi Christine.

You are absolutely correct. i) I only met a forester near the german second lines (see Only a door Stop - Battlefields in Danger), there was only a French couple who looked at the main monument but didn't walk the paths. 2) It is a very tough walk through the forest - off the main paths. I am a pretty good walker but the ground was treacherous. It was overgrown and there were times when you could feel a cavity under the vegetation, as it was springy. I had the OS map and a compass and it was still hard work to establish a route and walk in a straight line.

Yes, you could be right about the JOPs but they did look like forward saps. There were two in the area I walked. I didn't follow the Sentier de Découverte as it just looked like a pathway to the north, and I wanted to stay in the main area.

Lovely ghost story. One for your American friend to dine out on.

I'll post some more photos of Verdun later.

Gunner Bailey

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I'm amazed that the forester didn't tell you to go back to the track. These days, they notice people walking in the forest, partly because of the various dangers and partly because of collectors. There are more gendarmerie around now although I haven't yet seen them on the Mort-Homme.

Christina

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I'm amazed that the forester didn't tell you to go back to the track. These days, they notice people walking in the forest, partly because of the various dangers and partly because of collectors. There are more gendarmerie around now although I haven't yet seen them on the Mort-Homme.

Christina

Hi Christina

No he was really nice. I'd come out of the jungle by then and was more on the path. ( I was looking for the Crown Prince's Tunnel.

Here's some more photos, those who have not been to Douaumont Ossuary and Fort.

Gunner Bailey

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And one more.

Gunner Bailey

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Hi Gunner,

The tunnel marked on the IGN map as the Crown Prince tunnel is actually the Gallwitz tunnel and all that is visible above ground are some of the ventilation shafts and the remains of the exit that the French built after the war to accommodate visitors. It is in Caurettes ravine. The Crown Prince tunnel was on the western side of the Mort-Homme summit. The spoil tips are interesting, particularly the tip for the Gallwitz tunnel, which is huge.

Christina

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Hi Gunner,

The tunnel marked on the IGN map as the Crown Prince tunnel is actually the Gallwitz tunnel and all that is visible above ground are some of the ventilation shafts and the remains of the exit that the French built after the war to accommodate visitors. It is in Caurettes ravine. The Crown Prince tunnel was on the western side of the Mort-Homme summit. The spoil tips are interesting, particularly the tip for the Gallwitz tunnel, which is huge.

Christina

Thanks Christina

I didn't find the tunnel in the end. I was wondering if the IGN map was accurate. Next time I'll take a hand held GPS and work on a map ref rather than visuals. Either that or I was too tired after my trek thought the jungle to navigate properly.

GB

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Looks like you all had an excellent trip Chris, you were indeed fortunate to have the services of Christina as guide. In my opinion this battlefield is a "must visit" for any student of the Great War.

Norman

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