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Remembered Today:

More badge and medal ident please


mikebriggs
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Hi All

I'm showing my ignorace again, but please can you id these badges (and medals) for me if possible..oh yes what are the stars?

Sleeve 1

post-4619-1205586027.jpg

Sleeve 2

post-4619-1205586055.jpg

Sleeve 3

post-4619-1205586083.jpg

and Medals

post-4619-1205586103.jpg

many thanks

Mike

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Sleeve 1 - Armourer Sgt. I think the stars represented varying degrees of skill. The TF used them as efficiency badges.

Sleeve 2 - If they are crossed rifles - Marksman. I think being a Sgt made him a Sgt Instructor Musketry.

Sleeve 3. I cannot make it out but could be Sgt Instructor signals.

I will have to study the medals! - amount of clasps though I would think Boer War.

Steve m

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Sleeve one is obviously mechanical, as Steve Morse said, armourer, or Artificer, which branch of the army?

Sleeve three looks more like Crossed standards surmounted by a crown. Rank of Colour Sjt or recruiting Sjt. Also looks like the end of his swagger stick is showing.

Sleeve two may well be crossed rifles but it looks like it is surmounted by a crown or maybe S for sniper. But it may also be a crossed cannon surmounted by a crown. indicating artillery or tanks, which would fit in with the armourer. I am assuming that the Tunics appear to be the same Regiment.

If you would show more of the uniform, this would be a good pointer to a more precise answer.

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Mike

No idea about the ranks but the medals appear to be (left to right) DCM (possibly? not totally convinced), Queen's South Africa Medal (with what appears to be three clasps?) & King's South Africa Medal (with two clasps, in which case they'll be South Africa 1901 & 1902).

Regards

Steve

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dear all

many thanks for replies to date.........very helpful

here is a blow up of medals.....might it be DCM?

post-4619-1205589912.jpg

will post one of full group.......it is the 1/6th Battn Notts & Derby at Scarborough in 1908 (or 1909)

cheers

Mike

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Here is the full group. The Pioneer sergeant (who has appeared in anther post ;) ) is 306 Pioneer Sergeant John Beard.

The Armourer Sergeant on the left might be Armourer-Sergeant Milner who retired through age clause in 1908 (he looks old enough ;) )

post-4619-1205590238.jpg

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Is it possible that it is a photo of the men just after receiving medals? They all seem to have 'new' medals and the one sitting a medal ribbon. Could all be DCM.

Whoops 1908-1909 - Good conduct medals or similar :rolleyes:

sm

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Here is a picture of Joseph Keeling who won DCM in S Africa - could it be same man, just taken later?

post-4619-1205591196.jpg

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I don't think the other four are DCMs, the medal suspender bar appears 'straight' on those, the DCM is more 'fancy' for want of a better word. Could it be the Volunteer Force Long Service Medal?

Steve

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Is it possible that it is a photo of the men just after receiving medals? They all seem to have 'new' medals and the one sitting a medal ribbon

Thats a good point steve.

Beard was awarded his LSM in May 1906 so it would put the picture earlier than I thought.............perhaps?

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Yes, I think that they are all Long Service Medals

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Thanks grumpy, i will eagerly await your post

In the meantime I have had a quick look through Cliff Housley's list of DCM winners for the Boar War, and whilst it might not be complete, it does have 21 men listed.

One of these men Colour-Sergeant William Seaton was posted from the 1st Battn N & D to B Company 1/6th Battn in 1909. If its a DCM then that might be my man ;)

He stayed with the Battn and was promoted up to Major

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Nice satisfactory rugger result.

Date: post 1906 [cap], pre 1914, Territorial Force Notts and Derbys probably pre 1908 because none of these senior soldiers wear the proficiency 4 point star over chevrons, which I would have expected for some if not all. That star was taken into use by OTCs only, after 1908

Tunic order, except seated, service dress.

All men five point stars right cuff: efficiency star, one for every five years efficient at musketry etc.

LH: armourer sgt: definitely infantry [sash, cap badge, cuffs]

2. sgt, marksman x rifles left slleve

3. sgt pioneer, surprised no beard!

4. sgt instructor in musketry crossed rifles over chevrons

5. Colour sgt: crossed union flags, crown above

RH: sgt, marksman

seated: sergeant.

Thats about all I can screw out of it.

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Nice satisfactory rugger result.

Date: post 1906 [cap], pre 1914, Territorial Force Notts and Derbys probably pre 1908 because none of these senior soldiers wear the proficiency 4 point star over chevrons, which I would have expected for some if not all. That star was taken into use by OTCs only, and for a different purpose, after 1908

Tunic order, except seated, service dress.

All men five point stars right cuff: efficiency star, one for every five years efficient at musketry etc.

LH: armourer sgt: definitely infantry [sash, cap badge, cuffs]

2. sgt, marksman x rifles left sleeve

3. sgt pioneer, surprised no beard!

4. sgt instructor in musketry crossed rifles over chevrons

5. Colour sgt: crossed union flags, crown above

RH: sgt, marksman

seated: sergeant.

Thats about all I can screw out of it.

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Grumpy, that great, many many thanks

I know for certain that the Pioneer Sergeant is 306 John Beard who was awarded LSM in May 1906. The 1/6th Battn were in Camp at Scarborough in 1908, 1909, and 1911.

I'm pretty confident that the man next to him is Colour-Sergeant Instructor 4440 William Seaton who transferred to “H” (Whaley Bridge) Company in 1909 from the 1st Battalion. William Seaton held the rank of Colour-Sergeant in the 1st Battalion and served with No 1 Company Mounted Infantry in South Africa. He was recommended for the VC but was awarded the DCM for his actions in the Transvaal on 28th October 1901.

Beard served with H Company also and there is that BIG 'H' sign to give a clue B) So I would say that this is "H" (Whaley Bridge) Company and would have to say that 1909 looks the most likely? B)

Also serving with “H” Company at that time was:-

1) 283 William Fidler who was awarded an acting armourer certificate in December 1908 and the LSM in January 1909. William enlisted in the into the 2nd Volunteer Battalion The Sherwood Foresters on 13th January 1891 and served with the number 3176. He was discharged in July 1916 aged 48. COULD BE THE MAN NUMBER 1?

2) 316 Col-Sergt W Hidworth of H Coy who discharged from TF Reserve in 1911. COULD BE MAN NUMBER 5

I reckon that's a good afternoons work, plus the rugby was good and the cricket looks good too B)

thanks to all

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Thanks grumpy, i will eagerly await your post

In the meantime I have had a quick look through Cliff Housley's list of DCM winners for the Boar War, and whilst it might not be complete, it does have 21 men listed.

One of these men Colour-Sergeant William Seaton was posted from the 1st Battn N & D to B Company 1/6th Battn in 1909. If its a DCM then that might be my man ;)

He stayed with the Battn and was promoted up to Major

Mike

For your information "South African War Honours & Awards 1899-1902" has the following 22 Sherwood Foresters (Derbyshire Regiment) listed as winning the DCM...

Sgt.-Major H. G. Crummy (Mtd. Inf.)

Sgt.-Major H. Taylor (4th Bn.)

Co.-Sgt.-Major A. Ewin (Mtd. Inf.)

Qrmr.-Sgt. W. J. Roberts

Col.-Sgt. W. Harwood

Col.-Sgt. C. Walker (4th Bn.)

Col.-Sgt. C. D. Randal

Sgt. G. Dexter (Malta Mtd. Inf.) (died from wounds)

Sgt. J. Dames (Mtd. Inf.)

Sgt. J. Gilham

Sgt. W. Seaton (Mtd. Inf.)

Sgt. C. Chambers

L./Sgt. W. Dowson

Pte. H. Alton

Pte. A. Bullons

Pte. J. Cunningham (since killed in action)

Pte. C. O. Hickenbottom (Vol. Co.)

Pte. R. Isaac (since deceased)

Pte. A. Smith

Sgt. A. Avenall

Cpl. J. Brierly

Pte. E. Marriott

Regards

Steve

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Here is a picture of Joseph Keeling who won DCM in S Africa - could it be same man, just taken later?

post-4619-1205591196.jpg

From my knowledge with regards to the early doings of the Derbyshire Regt I am pretty sure that its not Joseph Keeling, he won his Distinguished Conduct Medal (DCM) in the Tirah Campaign he is not wearing the Indian General Service Medal 1895 (IGS) in your group photo. The other men are wearing the Volunteer Force Long Service and Good Conduct medals (1894) with straight suspender which had the plain green ribbon, this medal was superseded in 1908 by the Edward V11 Territorial Force Efficiency Medal (TFEM). Regards.

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