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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Motor Vehicles in World War I


MartinS

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It may be of intrest to some of the numerous types of MT in use. From the war diary of 48 Aux Ambulance car coy (418 Coy MT ASC):

Daimlers 8

De Deitrich 1

Rolls Royce 1

Buick 1

Sunbeam 6 (2 Types)

Leyland 5 (2 Types)

Locomobile 1

D Belville 1

Lancia 4 (2 Types)

Wolseley 7 (3 Types)

Thornycroft 3 (2 types)

Fords 26

Fiat 1

Straker Squire 3

Napier 1

Dennis 1

Commer 2

L.G.O.C. 2

Albion 1

Studebaker 2

Early 1917.

L of C troops Used for transport of wounded to and from hospitals, stations etc.

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I haven't ploughed through the whole thread so apologies if I'm duplicating but Germany attempted her own subsidy system for motor transport albeit with much less success.

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My apologies for the poor phrasing of the first paragraph in my #47 and the subsequent comment of Centurion that follows.

The validity referred solely to the provisional subsidy scheme.

Moving on, this scheme was subject to very extensive trials regarding the type of vehicle, namely trucks and/or adapted chassis, which were acceptable.

It is interesting how even by mid 1914, such preparations were in place. It appears that war had been accepted as inevitable, sooner rather than later.

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I think you will find that B type buses were so called because the were purchased under the subsidy B scheme. As such they were not commandeered, but given up th the army under ageed B subsidy requirements

Do you have a source for that? The B Type Bus entered service in 1910 but as I understand it (from here http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=S4UgChLsO8QC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=aec+b+type+bus+subsidy&source=bl&ots=2-w2v5jwoP&sig=dAhdwbKSq4dnD0XZlnXCFQIDl9w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=U-mXUbCuJ-zZ0QXp2oHQAg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=aec%20b%20type%20bus%20subsidy&f=false ) the B type scheme didn't come into effect until 1911. I thought it was just a generic name, like the previous X Type bus

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Very interesting - coud be that I am incorrect - although B type bus and subsidy B seem a strange coincidence. My understanding was as quoted. I'll try to check my files

David

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  • 3 weeks later...

Vehicle subsidy scheme.

The British Government introduced a subsidy scheme for petrol driven motor lorries for use by the War Department "in case of national emergency."

Brief details are:

The purchasers of vehicles of types which have passed War Department Trials can obtain a subsidy of £110, £30 of which are paid to the owner when the machine is enrolled, and the remaining £80 are payable in six half yearly installments

Two classes of lorries are accepted, one to carry 3 tons useful load and the other to carry 30 cwt. useful load.

The advantages which accrue to the owner of subsidised vehicles, in addition to the sums noted, are several.

First, the purchaser ensures obtaining a machine of a type which has undergone severe official tests of a run at least 1500 miles over difficult roads.

Secondly, he is assured that the design has been carefully thought out and submitted to Government inspection, economy as regards the consumption of spirit being required.

Thirdly, the subsidised vehicles are fitted with larger wheels than is customary, which give smooth and satisfactory running.

In the event of a "national emergency" the war office has the right to purchase such vehicles at fixed prices, payment being made immediately the vehicle is handed over without there being any necessity for arbitration or assessment of value.

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The subsidy scheme was announced some time before it came into effect and the LGOC issued a specification in advance that would meet it when it did come into effect. This was used by both AEC and Daimler as well as LGOC's own workshops - all buses produced to this general spec being known as London B types.

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Fascinating list of vehicles in that Co. It must have created a few challenges in maintenance and spare part ordering. Out of grammatical curiosity is it inappropriate to use the word "commandeered" when referring to trucks that were registered under the subsidy scheme but which were then taken into service by the War Office. The WO would send a telegram requesting that the vehicle be taken to a collection point and handed over in running condition (and with spare magneto if registered under the scheme with one). Is that "surrendering" by the owner or "commandeering" by the WO? Thanks.

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The East Riding Yeomanry and the Lincolnshire Yeomanry were amalgamated in 1918 into D Battalion Machine Gun Corps (later 102nd Battalion). The war diary mentions that they were designated a Machine Gun Battalion (Mobile) and as such were equipped with motor transport. Initially they received the following (War Diary, 11th July 1918);

22 5 Ton lorries (Thornycrofts I think from a later entry?)

1 Workshop lorry

1 Stores (lorry?)

6 towing cars

5 box cars (vans I think in modern terms)

20 side car combinations

18 solo motorcycles

On the 18th September the war diary notes:

86 OR ASC from First Army Troops MT Column reported for duty and 42 ALBION lorries received from same source and taken on charge to make battalion up to establishment, authorised by GHQ OB/407B 3/9/1918

There are also mentions of 3 ton lorries later but no mention of them arriving.

The East East Riding Yeomanry were not adverse to change, there are several pre-war camp photos showing cars and motorcycles and post war they were one of the Yeomanry regiments that elected to become mechanised and became the 26th Armoured Car Company, Tank Corps.

Cheers,

Neil.

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Just out of interest, I have several lists of vehicles, i.e. cars, lorries and motorcycles, including types and registrations, by unit, that were listed as stolen by a special investigation unit, sponsored by the Ministry of Munitions and run by an army officer. The French police cooperated in the recovery of these vehicles, all of which appear to have landed in French civilian hands. Most of the thefts took place in 1918/1919. I should say that the British officer In charge was something of scoundrel himself and despite being investigated by the Military police, had the knack of scraping out of trouble for the whole of his military career. It is an interesting story.

TR

That sounds very interesting. Out of curiosity, does the name Autocar feature on the list? Thanks

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Russian WW I vehical use from my notes from the landships Forum: 1914 the Russian imperial army had around 700 cars trucks and motorcycles. From 1914-17 they imported 22.500 cars and trucks. At the stasrt of the war there were 18,000 civilian vehicals in Russia and 5000 vehicles were imported by the land town and union during the war. Around 6000 vehicles were commandeered by the army during the war. The Russo-Balt automobile factory made 200+ cars and trucks pre WW I and made 400+ during the war. The Russians also imported or made somewhere between 550 to 650 armored cars. Some of the vehiclas going to Russia were lost in 1917 when the merchant ships perla and Olive Branch were sunk by the German submarine U28.

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That sounds very interesting. Out of curiosity, does the name Autocar feature on the list? Thanks

No Autocar's I'm afraid, but I suspect the lists are not complete. Many of the vehicles were the property of the Slough Trading Company who had a contract to buy surplus vehicles, but the listed vehicles were stolen before they were withdrawn from service for hand over.

TR

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  • 1 month later...

January 1907.

The French Minister of War has ordered a census of industrial vehicles capable of being mobilised for military transport.

The wagons will be divided into 3 categories, according to load carried.

Public Service Vehicles will also be included.

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As an ex-supply officer I was interested to see in the history of the US volunteer ambulance drivers, that they used only the Ford ambulance, and actually refused all othe rmakes. This was because having more than one make in action placed a hopelessly complicated task on spares supply.

Intersting that the British had no commonality at all in vehicles, with everything being accepted.

The thought of finding spares for them all is tear out hair time.

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This could have been because we didn't have the capacity at the beginning of the war. I think we have been using horse drawn ambulances to start with in France.

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If we were picky about one make we wouldn't have many at all - considering just how many thousands of each type we had I don't think spares would have been too much of an issue, and the companies making them were only over the channel (on the western front at least)

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At the risk of being bounced by the Mods, spares were a problem in WW2 for the same reason. Committees were set up to try and establish a single design of vehicle of each type to be built by all manufacturers as was the case with railway locos for the ROD. I read the file for the "Jeep Motorcycle" committee during research for a book and the resistance from the manufacturers was monumental. There was no way they'd let any such thing happen.

Keith

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Martin

There are a growing number of pictures under my Motorcycles of WW1 Thread. Post#7 in particular has a nice shot of a lorry and motorcycles being used to transport Pigeons.

I will keep checking in to your Thread for more Motorcycle references.

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If we were picky about one make we wouldn't have many at all - considering just how many thousands of each type we had I don't think spares would have been too much of an issue, and the companies making them were only over the channel (on the western front at least)

Now there speaks someone who has not had to find a left handed widget with a curly bit at the end and only half a part number visible, by this afternoon.

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Another reason for so many different makes is that the volunteers bought their own bikes.

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