Do you have a ww1 spoon?

[the saint]

I've got several spoons, picked in street sales or charity shops in the Somme twenty years ago, some have the Broad Arrow and regimental designation and number, others no markings other than manufacturer's. One has just the service number "17206" stamped.

Another one is silver plated and is engraved with "B 17th Div" in script. Any idea of the origine and the meaning of "B" ?

I have also a much shorter spoon (about 4" long) with the same shape which has 1/4th of the cup part missing, again no markings. I don't remember where I got it, but could it be civilian ?

Eric

[PBI]

Ok Chaps,perhaps i was hasty in setting a precedent for Govt Issue in WW1.But what i have found in many English Artillery positions in France and Belgium during WW1 are the proliferation of Brown Sauce Bottles,and Shiphams Meat Paste Jars.

[MikB]

...the proliferation of Brown Sauce Bottles,and Shiphams Meat Paste Jars.

Perhaps the Arty were creaming off the best of the rations before they reached the front lines. By the time they got to the trenches, maybe all that was left for Tommy was McConachies and biscuit .

[PBI]

You Should try my Wifes cooking,i had better in Military

[6th Hauraki KIA KAHA]

Hi

here are my two

One Marked

ASC

19141

W/l\D2

John round & Sons Ltd

Filed on one side

Other marked

RFA

100016

the Potose Silver Co

Birmingham

has been filed almost flat

[Guest KevinEndon]

it has just dawned on me that mess tins are not square in the corner, they are curved. So why have a straight edge for a curve, you would never get all the bits out.

[Chief_Chum]

"it has just dawned on me that mess tins are not square in the corner, they are curved. So why have a straight edge for a curve, you would never get all the bits out"

Trust me, having eaten regularly out of D shaped mess tins for nearly 20 years, ground down spoos are always better for eating with!

[JustinWilley]

According to family legend, (which may not be reliable on this point) my grandfather used these throughout the Great War, if it's true, they've somehow survived 3 generations of military service (the later two being rather less aduous!).

I wonder if any of the resident "spoon experts" has seen anything similar that can really been confirmed as dating from WW1.

Clearly private purchase, rather than issue, no makers name but some very indistinct marks near the base of the knife blade. The fork and spoon are chrome plated, the knife is un-plated steel (not stainless). There is some wear on all the pieces, but not worn away like some of the other examples. The original case is lost, the leather case they are in now is definitely later.

Justin Willey

[59165]

Just remembered something.

I've had 3 dug up Commonwealth forks over the years & all have had the prongs filed/worn down at an angle,I imagine for getting into those corners again.

Anyone else seen one?

Justin.Not having a go,may be just a pseudo but...thats a made up name ,isn't it

[Tim P]

It seems as though there were two separate types of end to an issue spoon too. the spade-like end and the one I would associate more with ww2 being an elongated teardrop shape?

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

I found a German spoon/fork combination in a plowed field just by High Wood along with buttons, etc. Oddly enough it still worked.

Ralph

[Peter Doyle]

In my experience, of the two spoons illustrated in post 25, the top one is much more in keeping with that issued to Great War soldiers, and the lower one, usually smaller, is commoner in WW2. This is the same in the lower spoon in post 26.

I've seen regimental number-marked WW1 spoons without the ordnance arrow. In this game, like many others, it's best to never say never, I guess.

Away from my home computer, but will post some pics when available.

Peter

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Are all WW1 spoons ordnance marked? How would I recognize one otherwise?

They are usually stamped with a Soldier's Service/Army Number; if not Gvt Marked which will concur with MiC number; but they could well be one of a handful of Men's Spoons.

[Joe Sweeney]

In my experience, of the two spoons illustrated in post 25, the top one is much more in keeping with that issued to Great War soldiers, and the lower one, usually smaller, is commoner in WW2. This is the same in the lower spoon in post 26.

I've seen regimental number-marked WW1 spoons without the ordnance arrow. In this game, like many others, it's best to never say never, I guess.

Away from my home computer, but will post some pics when available.

Peter

Peter/Tim,

The pattern of spoon on issue at the beginning of the war dated back to 1894 with pattern 3910/1894. It was made of cupro nickel and in a style called fiddle back handle (i.e. the top version in post 25) An alternate pattern was approved with 9520/1917, 30 June 1917. This new pattern was also made of cupro nickel in an Old English style (i.e the bottom spoon).

There were many older types still issued and local purchase KFS made for a myriad of patterns at any given time during the war.

Joe Sweeney

[trenchtrotter]

Of the six or seven spoons I have found or been with someone when they found them only one was marked with a number. It is more common to find unmarked examples IMHO. Note I refer to field finds on the Somme.

Regards

TT

[Peter Doyle]

Joe, thanks once again for your considerable insight.

I guess I should have said that, again, in my experience, the only spoons I've seen from WW2 kit rolls are of the lower version ('Old English'), so this would suggest the 'Fiddle Back' was less prevalent then.

While we are on the subject, while forks (of Fiddle back style) are reasonably often encountered, I've hardly ever seen a knife. I have assumed that these were discarded as fork and spoon (with clasp knife) would suffice, but am I right?

And another thing...have you noticed that the spoons are often much larger than the forks, or is this just me....

Best wishes

Peter

[Andrew Upton]

While we are on the subject, while forks (of Fiddle back style) are reasonably often encountered, I've hardly ever seen a knife. I have assumed that these were discarded as fork and spoon (with clasp knife) would suffice, but am I right?

It's the same reason you sometimes see the spoon being carried in the top of puttees, hose tops, etc. Food falls into two categories - what you can eat with your bare hands, and that which you need a tool for. You've always got your hands with you, and a fork has pointy bits, so you shove the spoon into your puttees (as it doesn't have a sharp edge) to cover the other choice...

[Khaki]

Hi

here are my two

One Marked

ASC

19141

W/l\D2

John round & Sons Ltd

Filed on one side

Other marked

RFA

100016

the Potose Silver Co

Birmingham

has been filed almost flat

I have a spoon very similar, no maker's marks, magnetic steel, silver wash and looks as if it was stamped metal.

khaki

(older maybe?)

[margaretdufay]

All this talk about spoons, reminded me of an anecdote, when I first came to France, I was working with a guy, who was French but who looked very very English. When he started doing his family tree, he found that there was a discrepancy between his father's date of birth and his grandparent's marriage date. It turned out that the granny had my colleague's father to an English soldier, and the only souvenir that they had of this soldier was his spoon with his initials on it, and of course the granny would never talk about it or even give the soldier's name. Quite sad really.

mags

[centurion]

I have a number of spoons of the period, none government issue, all inherited but one of which according to family tradition, accompanied a Gt Uncle to war in Egypt. None are worn or ground down. However I can certify from experience that taking the bottom off a spoon off makes getting into the corners of cans and jars much easier. I have some purpose made ice cream spoons with a straight bottom and side that are perfect for getting every bit of crunchy peanut butter out of a jar.

I believe that sharpened spoons are regarded in some prisons (US and UK) as ideal weapons for inflicting non lethal but painful and disfiguring injuries.

[RobL]

Regarding the spoon in your puttees, is this not for scraping mud off your boots etc rather than eating with? Wouldn't particularly want something I'm going to eat with in such a vulnerable position, especially when you can just put it in your small pack with the rest of your cutlery or your pocket

[GRANVILLE]

Very good point Rob & one I've very often wondered about. Why would you put your spoon to eat with down your puttees in the very area its most likely to get contaminated with who knows what.

Dave

[Dave1418]

This type of boot scraper fashioned from a spoon usually has the spoons bowl flatted out and then cut in half across its width to form a straoght edge. Ideal for getting the mud from the instep or scraping around the hob nails. An acquaintand of mine has a very nice example made from an 1870's French cutlery set the handle having the Chateau's coat of arms on it.

Dave

[Chief_Chum]

"Regarding the spoon in your puttees, is this not for scraping mud off your boots etc rather than eating with? Wouldn't particularly want something I'm going to eat with in such a vulnerable position, especially when you can just put it in your small pack with the rest of your cutlery or your pocket"

"Very good point Rob & one I've very often wondered about. Why would you put your spoon to eat with down your puttees in the very area its most likely to get contaminated with who knows what."

No, they are definitely for eating with. All your comfy civvie ideas go out of the window when you find yourself in their position and practicality kicks in. The Army rarely gave you anything you could eat with a knife and fork so the ground down spoon served for all eating duties.

Over the years we met plenty of Great War veterans on Khaki Chums tours. Many of them told us that once you had eaten your stew there was nowhere at all to wash your spoon and the most common way to clean them was push them into dry dirt. Do that a couple of times and all the stew is gone and the spoon is 'clean'. Once you have got used to trench cutlery cleaning it won't bother you too much if it lives in your puttee. However, if you look at original photos you will rarely see them in puttees where the ground is thick wet mud. Then they are often seen sticking out of top pockets. Once in the trenches haversacks were removed so keeping your spoon handy probably seemed a sensible idea.

When we were training the 'Hull Pal's for the BBC series 'The Trench' in 2001 the Khaki Chums NCOs all ate in one of the NCO Messes at Catterick. I can remember a few of the fellas complaining that some of the cutlery hadn't been washed up very well - and a week later we were all cleaning spoons with dirt between the stew and the dessert! As I said at the start, you can't compare what you would do at home with the life they lived at The Front. I suspect eating a bit of dirt kept a lot of illness away too.

Cheers,

Taff

[Andrew Upton]

Over the years we met plenty of Great War veterans on Khaki Chums tours. Many of them told us that once you had eaten your stew there was nowhere at all to wash your spoon and the most common way to clean them was push them into dry dirt. Do that a couple of times and all the stew is gone and the spoon is 'clean'.

F Mackain even did one of his "Sketches of Tommy's Life" postcards in the "At the Base" series on that very subject:

http://www.nma.gov.au/collections-search/display?irn=147874