jay dubaya Posted 13 March , 2008 Share Posted 13 March , 2008 I'm looking into the deaths of 5 RFA men on the above date, one of the men has HT Kingstonian by his name. They are all remembered on the Chatby Memorial and all died at sea, it may also be worth mentioning that one man is reported as KiA. I have searched SDGW for the same date and circumstances but the results are just the 5 mentioned. Any help much appreciated, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 13 March , 2008 Share Posted 13 March , 2008 Jon, Interesting. Kingstonian was a 6454 grt vessel built in 1901 and owned by F. Leyland & Co., Ltd., Liverpool. She was hit twice, with one dead on each occassion: UB 68 put a torpedo into her on April 11, 1918 at 39.02N-07.10E after which she was beached in Carloforte Roadstead. That's where UB 48 found her on April 29, 1918 and finished her (she did a lot of other damage besides that. It's possible that there might have been additional dead as military passengers aboard the steamer. The date you give is quite odd though. The dead: April 11, 1918: John Sidwell April 29, 1918: D. Jones Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 13 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2008 Thanks Michael, I have edited the date...my typo, it should have read the 11th and not 18th. All 5 men were members of 19th Battery, 9th Brigade RFA. Why would John Sidwell not be remembered on the Chatby Memorial given that he died the same day? cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 13 March , 2008 Share Posted 13 March , 2008 Jon, Sidwell was in the merchant marine, and all merchant marine casualties with no grave but the sea are commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial. Should note that the causalty figures I gave came from British Vessels Lost at Sea 1914-18, which, as I said, does not include non-naval military passengers such as army troops being transported. At least one source I have says that Kingstonian was carrying troops and equipment from Alexandria to Marseille when originally hit, which could explain it. You'd probably need to look at the official statements on the April 11, 1918 incident to be sure -- these should survive and be at TNA. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 13 March , 2008 Share Posted 13 March , 2008 Jon - There's a note on Sidwell's CWGC details that he served as Thobinson is he on Chatby Memorial under that name? CWGC details Here Cheers, Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 14 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2008 Thanks Michael, I have since found this document held at the IWM. It would seem that the 9th Brigade RFA were being shipped to Marseille after there transfer from the Meerut Division to the 52 (Lowland) Division which must have taken place earlier that month. Do you know what damage was caused? and are there any pics of the Kingstonian available? Terry, I've rechecked the Chatby Memorial Sidwell isn't listed under the name of Thobinson, but as Michael has mentioned 'all merchant marine casualties with no grave but the sea are commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial' Many thanks for your help fellas, cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 14 March , 2008 Share Posted 14 March , 2008 'all merchant marine casualties with no grave but the sea are commemorated on the Tower Hill Memorial' Jon - I might be wrong but I think this is correct for national / official commemorations but I believe many are included on local community memorials. Cheers Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 14 March , 2008 Share Posted 14 March , 2008 Jon, I don't have details of the damage to Kingstonian, however, that shoudl be given in ADM137/4043 "Enemy submarines: particulars of attacks on merchant vessels in Mediterranean 1918 April." Also, note that UB 68's commander at the time was Heino von Heimburg, who had been awarded the Pour le Mérite the previous August. Von Heimburg was the U-boat commander that sank the Royal Edward in 1915. UB 48's commander when she finished off the Kingstonian was another Pour le Mérite winner, Wolfgang Steinbauer. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lörscher Posted 14 March , 2008 Share Posted 14 March , 2008 Hi all, as per my notes re. torpedoing of KINGSTONIAN I can add She was on voy. Alexandria - Marseille, together with transport MANITOU and Sloops BERBERIS, LYCHNIS . KINGSTONIAN had on board 1315 troops (34 officers among them), 24 artillery pieces 18 pdr. and equipment additional to her normal complement of 82 crew. 1 crew and 1 soldier died when torpedoed by UB 68 on 11.04.1918, the ship being towed by BERBERIS to Carloforte and beached there. While still there she was finally sunk by UB 48 on 29.04.1918 which resulted in the dead of another man. More details should be found in the TNA file mentioned by Michael, I'm not sure if names are given there. Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 15 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2008 Many thanks once again fellas, Oliver, your information has confirmed what I thought, albeit that I have 5 soldiers that died on the Kingstonian on the 11th and not 1 (I have their details if you're interested). The artillery pieces belonged to the 9th Brgade RFA and it would appear that the entire brigade was onboard and I imagine that the 9th DAC was onboard the Manitou. cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lörscher Posted 15 March , 2008 Share Posted 15 March , 2008 ... I have 5 soldiers that died on the Kingstonian on the 11th and not 1 (I have their details if you're interested).cheers, Jon Hi Jon, yes of course, I'm interested :-) Possibly those men were wounded and died later ? Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 16 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2008 Hi Oliver, the men listed below are all members of 19th Bty, 9th Bde RFA, who died on 11th April 1918. Their details appear on both SDGW & CWGC Gnr. 128466 Winfred Bull, reported as KiA at sea Gnr. 49113 Harry James, died at sea Dvr. 13461 Joseph Phillips, died at sea Bdr. 66681 Albert Pullen, died at sea Gnr. 67980 Frederick Woodhouse, died at sea cheers, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneph1 Posted 21 February , 2009 Share Posted 21 February , 2009 I'm looking into the deaths of 5 RFA men on the above date, one of the men has HT Kingstonian by his name. They are all remembered on the Chatby Memorial and all died at sea, it may also be worth mentioning that one man is reported as KiA. I have searched SDGW for the same date and circumstances but the results are just the 5 mentioned. Any help much appreciated, cheers, Jon Hi Jon, I have been researching my Grandfather who was in the 43rd Battery RFA. I recently visited the National Arcives to look at their war diary and came across the HT Kingstonian referred to in it. The 43rd Battery left Southampton on 8th September 1914 on board this vessel heading for the port of St Nazaire from where they marched to take part in the Battle of the River Aisne. I would imagine therefore that this was a vessel regularly used by the RFA and may have been carrying the men you are researching when it was sunk. Hope this helps. Regards, Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecktec Posted 21 February , 2009 Share Posted 21 February , 2009 Phil SIDWELL, John Greaser & Fireman MM served as THOBINSON SS Kingstonian (Liverpool) killed 11.4.18 JONES, D. Str Kpr MM SS Kingstonian drowned 29.4.18 Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevmc Posted 23 December , 2010 Share Posted 23 December , 2010 I have been researching my Grandfather who was in the 43rd Battery RFA. I recently visited the National Arcives to look at their war diary and came across the HT Kingstonian referred to in it. The 43rd Battery left Southampton on 8th September 1914 on board this vessel heading for the port of St Nazaire from where they marched to take part in the Battle of the River Aisne. I would imagine therefore that this was a vessel regularly used by the RFA and may have been carrying the men you are researching when it was sunk. Hope this helps. Regards, Phil The S S Kingstonian must have done the Alexandria to Marseille run for some time. The 42nd East Lancs Divn used the ship in Feb 1917 when transferring from Egypt to the Western Front. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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