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Remembered Today:

Mars Offensive 28th March 1918


RobertBr

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GGneice

 

Welcome to the forum. You should be able to find many of the answers here, but seldom all of them. I have also just returned from the Mars battlefields (I have just about dried out and cleaned off the mud).

 

I cannot answer all your questions and suggest you start new topics for:

 

1) Information about Casualty Forms. Try a search of the "Medical Services" sub-forum first.

2) Information about the earlier locations of the Battalion. Also look on the "Long Long Trail" (There is a Link at the top of the GWF) which will provide some information.

 

As for the 28th March one of my main sources is Lt Col Gordon's report. You will see that on the 25th the 8 Bde side slipped to the right. The coordinates given (T.1.b.3.6) places their left just outside Henin sur Cojueul and right on the Arras-Baupume Rd, adjoining the Welsh Guards who held the line to the West.

 

5abea7360c208_8BdePositions.jpg.6cb55907ca016142037f39a1d8a1aeee.jpg

 

There is a small lane that runs along the front from the main road past Henin sur Cojeul and St Martin sur Cojeul (I visted these sites on 27th)

 

The Battalion HQ was SE of Mercatel near the crossroads on the route to Henin sur Cojeul.

 

Unfortunately I do not have a trench map for the area. Lt Col Gordon mentions trenches at right angle which are probably communications trenches (for personnel/supplies movement) and the digging of outposts. There should be support trenches beyond the ouposts roughly parrallel to the front.

 

 

5abeae2b79462_EndPosition.jpg.d74557dd292fa034726aa570268f5c3f.jpg

 

The 8th Bde report (WO 95/1419) puts the KSLI and Royal Scots in a sunken road (red line above) at 1:35pm and in the 4th System (green above) by 6:30pm. The Royal Scots final position being in the southern portion of the line.

 

Regards

 

Bob

 

 

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  • RobertBr changed the title to Mars Offensive 28th March 1918
On 25/03/2018 at 18:12, RobertBr said:

Finally the Weather reports for 23rd to 31st March 1918.

 

I just hope that its no worse 100 years later and that the 'Beast from the East ' does not return (is that another name for Mars?)

 

See you  over there.

 

Bob

 

 

Day

 

Report

 

Location

 

Source

 

       
       
       
       
       

28

 

Very wet all night.

 

Fine day. Wet night.

 

South Bank R Scarpe

 

Cambrai Rd West of Monchy Le Preux

 

 

 

1 Warwicks

 

45 Brigade

 

       
       
       

 

 Sources:

1 Battalion Royal Warwickshire’s 10 Brigade 4th Division

6 Battalion Cameron Highlanders 45 Brigade 15th (Scottish) Division

13 Battalion The Royal Scots 45 Brigade 15th (Scottish) Division

44 Brigade 15th (Scottish) Division

45 Brigade 15th (Scottish) Division

46 Brigade 15th (Scottish) Division

 

 

Supplementary from 20/KRRC battalion history for 28 Mar 1918 when they were manning the Purple Line ...

"All day the garrison of the Purple Line was employed in improving their trenches, which they stocked with S.A.A.  It poured heavily after mid-day, and the trenches became muddier and muddier, and there was no protection."

 

 

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MBrockway

 

That's interesting. I have not looked at the 20 KRRC War diary. My informatiosn on their movements comes from the DHQ War Diary. It states when they were ordered to man the Purple Line, if required, and when it was reported they were manning the line, which was at 4pm, along with the 3 Field Coys RE. What I have found is some major time differences in the diaries concerning the same events. Usually this is due to communication links forward being cut.

 

Another problem I have is with line naming. Different Division/Brigades (Corps/Armies ?) refer to the same lines by different names, 3rd System, 4th System, Brown, Green, Bailleul-Willerval etc. I believe I have correctly identified the Front Line held at start of the battle and the line at the end ie 4th System, Army Line,  Bailleul-Willerval and arguably a new section for most of the 4th Div. I have not traced the Purple Line.

 

Thanks for the Weather report its the only one suggesting it rained during the day. I can however confirm that this year it rained all day with a cold blusterly wind and that the mud was clinging and slippery.

 

Bob

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On 3/30/2018 at 20:45, GGNeice said:

Finally do you have any information about where the 1st Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers were between 5.11.16 (when Andrew arrived in France) and 28th March 2018 when he died?

 

John Buchan (yes the same one who wrote The Thirty Nine Steps) wrote The History of the Royal Scots Fusiliers 1678-1918, and there are plenty of paperback copies around for £20 or often rather less on ebay/2nd hand on Amazon etc. The book is not totally satisfactory with lots of errors, but at the moment it is the best we have. 1st RSF were in 3rd Division, so when you look up battles in books or on the 'net then that is the unit to look for.

 

A whistle-stop history of the battalions history:

 

On 13/11/16 they took part in one of the last actions of the Battle of the Somme at Serre - huge losses were sustained, but the mud and the rain proved too much. However, your gg-uncle would almost certainly not have joined up with the battalion until after this battle.

 

The first months of 1917 saw the battalion refitting and in training, and then at Arras in April-May 1917 they fought in several phases of the Arras campaign, including the First Battle of the Scarpe, not a total success and with huge casualties, (this was very close to where your gg-uncle was to die a year later)

 

The summer months were spent in a quiet sector on the Somme, where they took on new drafts of men, and when not manning the front-line trenches they spent much time training for the autumn Flanders offensive.

 

In late September 1st RSF, as part of the 3rd Division, took part in some of the heaviest fighting in the Battle of Polygon Wood, a phase of the Third Battle of Ypres (aka Passchendaele). This part of the battle has been badly described/completely ignored in nearly every book. ( I have just written my MA dissertation on 3rd Div at Polygon Wood, and hope to publish a version of it in due course). Huge casualties were sustained (greater than either of the two Australian divisions which attacked on their right), as they encountered flooded ground, and lost the cover of their creeping artillery barrage. The division more or less captured the ground allotted to them, although huge resources of all kinds were used up.

 

Their next major action was at Arras in the German Spring Offensive in which your gg-uncle was killed, which was a rather desperate affair, with the division being pushed back by much greater German forces.

 

I hope that some of this has been of help!

 

William

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Esdorn

 

Thanks for the map info it helps to an extent. What I really need is a pre-Mars 51b SW map.

 

Bob

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  • 11 months later...
On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2008 at 22:21, RobertBr said:

Artillery Positions

The 56th Divisions own field artillery consisted of the 280th and 281st Brigades. Nominally 36 x 18 pounders and 12 x 4.5 howitzers.

During the day the 52nd Brigade Army Field Artillery were detached from the Canadian Division directly to the north and came under control of the 56th CRA.

Artillery positions for the 281st Brigade are quite well defined in its War Diary.

The 280th Brigades War Diary places 2 x 18 pounders of 93rd Battery in Arleux as ‘anti-tank guns, otherwise it gives no specific position information. Its does state “the ‘forward’ guns were withdrawn to the ‘Main Position, behind the ridge”, this probably occurred in the afternoon or evening.

post-11115-1205619544.jpg

On the map I have used colour coding to indicate the Brigade / Battery locations.

The colour of the circle indicate the Brigade.

The colour of the number indicating the battery and number of guns.

PS Apologies for the image quality. Its extracted form a Word document. If anyone wants a copy drop me a PM.

281 Brigade (Black Circle)

Batteries:

A(Red). B(Green). 109(Orange). D(Blue)

280 Brigade (Green Circle)

Batteries:

93(Orange)

52nd Brigade (Brown Circle)

Batteries:

A(Red). C(Green). 122(Orange). D(Blue)

Bob,

 

This is your map that I was referring to, and which indicates five A Battery guns alongside four 109 Battery guns (Black circles). In your opinion, am I right in thinking that means the guns are likely to have line of sight with each other? Also, you offer a copy of the map, could I be cheeky and ask for a copy please?

 

Many thanks for such a useful information thread.

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  • 3 months later...
On ‎21‎/‎03‎/‎2008 at 21:00, RobertBr said:

281Brigade RFA

03.30

Heavy enemy barrage. Gas & HE of all calibre on 56th Div front.

03.50

Barrage on SOS lines put down by group.

04.15

B281 detached section put out of action by gas & direct hits by HE on guns.

06.00

A281 shelled with gas

06.20

109 suffer casualties

Bob,

Cross referencing from the other thread.

 

Here is my thinking based on your info for 28th March 1918 above:-

 

A281 shelled and 109 suffer casualties.

Your map above post-11115-1205619544.jpg

shows 5 A battery guns alongside 4 109 battery guns by what I think is Railway Post.

 

CWG database shows the following RFA casualties on 28th March:-

190491 BENNETT   A 24   28/03/1918   Gunner Royal Field Artillery 134th Bty. 32nd Bde. France '113371'
190521 CHADWICK EDMUND E 19   28/03/1918   Gunner Royal Field Artillery 109th Bty. 281st Bde. France '160608'
190536 COWLEY   J     28/03/1918   Gunner Royal Field Artillery 128th Bty. 29th Bde. France '111357'
190544 DAVIES   D J     28/03/1918   Driver Royal Field Artillery 56th Div. Ammunition Col. France '2614'
190595 HARTILL   T W 33   28/03/1918   Gunner Royal Field Artillery 109th Bty. 281st Bde. France '18300'
190603 HARRISON F J   M M 28/03/1918   Serjeant Royal Field Artillery 109th Bty. 281st Bde. France '50780'
190618 HOWELL   H     28/03/1918   Gunner Royal Field Artillery 109th Bty. 281st Bde. France '185904'
190631 JONES   A W     28/03/1918   Bombardier Royal Field Artillery 109th Bty. 281st Bde. France '64728'
190687 MINSHALL J C     28/03/1918   Serjeant Royal Field Artillery 109th Bty. 281st Bde. France '76683'
190706 PARSONS FRED F 22   28/03/1918   Driver Royal Field Artillery 122nd Bty. 56th Bde. France '118996'
190714 PHILP   F H 21   28/03/1918   Lance Bombardier Royal Field Artillery 280th Bde. H.Q. France '925089'
190755 SLAUGHTER S E     28/03/1918   Gunner Royal Field Artillery "C" Bty. 280th Bde. France '925370'
190780 THOMSON JAMES BRYCE J B 20   28/03/1918   Gunner Royal Field Artillery 134th Bty. 32nd Bde. France '227770'
190793 WAREING J H     28/03/1918   Gunner Royal Field Artillery 281st Bde. France '118247'

 

My grandfather was in A battery as a bombardier and he was injured on 28th. (medical records)

The anecdotal story that accompanied him was that his gun was hit and he was the only one to survive. 

Given the placement of the guns in close proximity, the fact that CWG do not record any A battery casualties on that day, nor subsequent days, I am drawn to conclude that his story is only partially correct and that the gun that was hit was an adjacent 109 battery gun manned by the men recorded above.

This suggests that the men in this picture, aside from him, did not necessarily perish and might have survived the war. He carried this picture in his breast pocket throughout the rest of the war in honour of the men, but of course he spent the rest of the war in convalescence and then the reserves. He may never have known that he was confused about the guns.

 

If you have any thoughts on my logic or the practicalities of the scenario I have painted I'd be happy to hear them.

Thanks.

Chris.

Royal Artiliary Gun Crew.jpg

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Chris

 

My mapping of gun positions is of those I could place from the available information. Batteries had additional gun emplacements available and often moved guns between them to hinder the enemy’s attempts to locate the batteries. However having visited the battlefield I can say that the locations behind the old railway made ideal sites for the guns on the day.

The CRA report for the day states that 45 x 18 Pdrs were available to the 56th Div (280, 281 & 52 Bdes) on the day. 12 were destroyed or put out of action by shellfire. Gun losses per battery are not available. OR losses were 11 killed, 29 wounded and 9 missing. Therefore a gun being put out of action did not mean that all its crew would be casualties.

I commend your attempt to unravel what happened to your Grandfathers on that day. Your interpretation of the available records is a more than plausible theory. It may be right or it may be wrong, without a definitive source you will never know.

I too attempted the same with my Grandfather I think he was with the howitzers behind Bailleul and was probably gassed in the early hours of the bombardment. I cannot prove my theory, but it stands until disproved.

 

 

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On ‎19‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 00:37, RobertBr said:

Your interpretation of the available records is a more than plausible theory. It may be right or it may be wrong, without a definitive source you will never know.

That's exactly my thinking Bob. In the mean time any additional information can edge the plausibility one way or the other.

 

You say  "OR losses were 11 killed, 29 wounded and 9 missing." Of those 11 killed the CWGC show 6 from 109Battery of 281st, 1 just noted as 281st Bde, 2 from 280th Bde (1 from HQ and 1 from C battery) and 1 from 56th Division ammunition Column. The other 4 RFA casualties recorded by CWGC on that day are from other brigades. 

I guess my grandfather was one of the "9 missing". I still do not have a definitive answer from CWGC on how they would have recorded those missing men if they had turned into "assumed dead" but unidentified. In terms of memorial they have the unknown soldier, but I still can't be sure whether, once a soldier was assumed dead, they then recorded him on their database or not. That could have been the case with the rest of his gun crew. As you say, we'll likely never know.

 

Thanks again.

Chris.

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  • 3 years later...

Superb work, absolutely phenomenal. My Great-great-uncle was in the London Scottish and was awarded MM in 1918 - I believe due to this action in March 1918. I have his diary which (among other things) echoes much of the conversation around the use of gas. Indicates on 28th that he had "taken up B positions in Red Lines. 3AM Barrage. Gas until 5 o'clock then HE. Germans attacks at 6am. Heavy fighting all day", and on 29th "Fighting died down. Burying our dead. Have 10 men in platoon out of 40". I'm not sure which Platoon he was in, but I suspect one in "A" Company 1/14th. RobertBr, if you are interested in reading it I'd be delighted to have a conversation, send me a DM. 

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