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Remembered Today:

Kinell (Sp) Camp, Rhyl


Beau Geste
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Would anyone know if Kinell (Sp) camp in Rhyl, North Wales, that was used as a training establisment during WW1 is still in existence? More importantly, would anyone know if a register of personnel who trained at the camp during that period exists today?

Best wishes,

Harry

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It's Kinmel Park. Used by many training battalions. I can't imagine a list ever existed, let alone survive to this day.

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Kinmel can be found if you search some of the subforums. Sorry - I can't do a link for you - I'm a neanderthal with the fiddly bits on my computer!

Further to Chris's note - in 1919, Kinmel held 21,000 Canadians - a list of individual soldiers would not be found!

Earlier, the North Wales RWF Pals battalions were engaged in building the place whilst waiting for their uniforms and rifles.

Geraint

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I am pretty sure that there is no military presence left at what was Kinmel Park Camp. Its wooden huts were busy in the 1950s with two training regiments of Gunners, but I think the A55 has been driven through part of it and some sort of industrial or commercial park sits on other parts. The 'Marble Church' is still there- much used for church parades, and some burials. Other past threads will tell you more if you SEARCH.

Daggers

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I understand that all that remains of the camp are the remnants of some practice trenches in the grounds of Bodelwyddan Hall (now a Warner Breaks Hotel).

John

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I understand that all that remains of the camp are the remnants of some practice trenches in the grounds of Bodelwyddan Hall (now a Warner Breaks Hotel).

John

Thank you John.

No, I was just interested in whether or not any records of those who trained there have survived You might remember a previous reference of mine to the 300 plus "lads from Bolton" who were recruited into the 15th Bn The Welsh Regt (The Carmarthenshires) in 1914 when Lloyd George set out to create a Welsh Army. I just thought that there just might have been some reference to it existing in that area and the first place to start seemed to be the camp itself.

Kind regards,

Harry

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Unless something has changed very recently, Kinmel Park still forms part of the Army Training Estate in Wales. At least, it still features on the MoD website. The area is much reduced since WW1, WW2 & National Service days.

Google Earth doesn't seem to cover it in high definition, although it is available on Live Search Maps. The south west quadrant contains what may be a number of huts of WW1 vintage. They seem to have been adapted to form three six-hut 'spider' formations. However, they may well be newer build. It is hard to say from the aerial.

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Harry

I'd do it the other way round. Check whatever records the Welsh Regt might have.

G

Glengarry - It has a Cadw preservation order (bits of it)

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Harry

I'd do it the other way round. Check whatever records the Welsh Regt might have.

G

Glengarry - It has a Cadw preservation order (bits of it)

Done it and just about everything else Geraint: Kew, Archives in Bolton, Cardiff, Archives in Carmarthen and so on. It was just another desperate idea.

Harry

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Harry

What i can say is that my Gt Uncle was a training NCO at Kimnell

Lance Sergeant Leonard Nuttall, died 1916 buried Bodelwyddan

If you'd like anymore info please ask

post-31332-1205326355.jpg

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ShropshireMad

What regiment was he with? By 1916, the camp was used as a training camp covering not only N Wales, (it's original purpose) but for a large tract of NW England as well. I would imagine that your man died either as a result of an accident or illness at the camp, or en-route of wounds - though I don't think it was used as a hospital holding camp at all.

Very interesting methinks!

Geraint

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Harry

What i can say is that my Gt Uncle was a training NCO at Kimnell

Lance Sergeant Leonard Nuttall, died 1916 buried Bodelwyddan

If you'd like anymore info please ask

Thank you.

I've PMd you. Hope that's OK.

Harry

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ShropshireMad

What regiment was he with? By 1916, the camp was used as a training camp covering not only N Wales, (it's original purpose) but for a large tract of NW England as well. I would imagine that your man died either as a result of an accident or illness at the camp, or en-route of wounds - though I don't think it was used as a hospital holding camp at all.

Very interesting methinks!

Geraint

Hi Geraint

From what i know/have been told, Leonard Nuttall originally enlisted in the 9th Welsh Regiment, he was soon promoted to a corporal, probably owing to his occupation and the fact he came from a well off family.

His MiC states he entered France in July 1915. I understand he took part in the Battle of Loos, my grandfather stated that he suffered from shock owing to the battle. (I'm not sure what the 9th did).

Thus he was appointed albeit temporally a Lance Sergeant in the 12th btn Welsh Regiment, to 'recuperate'.

I believe the btn was based at Kinmel Camp, i doubt this is pure coincidence but he resided at Bodelwyddan with his mother, his 2 sisters were teachers at Bodelwyddan School, hence his burial at Bodelwyddan.

Now the very sad part of this is, well........ from what i've been told he was to be posted to a btn in France, however he simply didn't want to go!, alas one day 25/06/1916 he went to Bryn Elwy Woods near St. Asaph and commited suicide by hanging.

his MiC states he 'commited suicide whilst temporally insane'!!!!!

Please add to this if you can as, i'd like to understand more about the 9th & 12th Welsh Regiment.

Many Thanks

Neil Evans

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There is a very interesting book called "The Kinmel Park Camp Riots 1919" by Julian Putkowski which has a map of the layout of the camp in 1919 with Bodelwyddan castle and village shown, this might help to understand the site better.

Tim.

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I visited Kinmel a few days ago. TheCamp still contains a MoD Air Cadet Base, but the remainder are Denbighshire CC Depot, and a large industrial estate. One part - the training areas, however, are I think listed by Cadw the Welsh Heritage Agency. This bit contains the training area and practice trench part. The last Great War huts were demolished about 10 years ago, and graffiti found were photographed and recorded prior to that.

I've looked at my files again, there was a Camp hospital there, but where those records went - I've no idea.

I'll be back at Bodelwyddan in the next few days. I'll look out for his Welsh Reg gravestone and take a pic if you wish.

In your photo, the trees have been cut down, and the three rows closest to the camera are the graves of young lads who died at the camp 1914-18 (about 40)!

The furthest away are the Canadian graves who died in the mutiny and of the flu in 1919

Such a sad story.

Geraint

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