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Remembered Today:

1st Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers 26/12/17


GraemeClarke
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Gents,

Can anyone help with the 1st Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers on Wednesday 26 December 1917.

I have absolutely no idea what they were doing then so any information at all will be most gratefully received.

My man from the Walsall RoH is Albert CARNELL, Lance Corporal 40964, buried in Unicorn Cemetery, Grave II.F.3.

Regards,

Graeme

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Hi

The 1/RDF were in the front line close to Epehy on the 26th December and were subjected to heavy shelling resulting in the deaths of 2 men C/Cpl Albert Carnell and Pte Albert Herman. Both are buried at Unicorn Cemetery.

Not much help :( but might giv you a start in finding a more detailed account

Martin

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  • 2 years later...

I'm also trying to piece together the events of 26th December 1917 as my great uncle was the Albert Herman who died on the same day (same action presumably?) as Albert Carnell.

I only have his medal card as his service records were one of those destroyed in WW2.

What also intrigues me is why he is buried at Unicorn cemetary when there are cemetaries closer to Epehy.

Did you make any progress Graeme that you could share?

Thanks

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Hi

No, I'm afraid that the short answer is that I have not,

If anyone can post the War Diary we'd be most grateful !!!!

Unicorn was made after the Armistice from battlefield burials etc which may be the answer.

Regards

Graeme

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I have the War diaries for 1st Battalion up to Oct 1917, from memory the box was in a right mess, and I had to hand it in for re-sorting. Then I have them again from May 1918

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Gents

I made a copy yesturday at the PRO of 1st RDF from Aug to Dec 17. I still need to sort them out from my camera. If they're readable I'll get back in touch.

CWT

PS I've been in and out of 16th Div boxes and they're all in a bit of a mess!

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Colin, once you have them sorted, I would be grateful. I have almost all of the various battalions of RDF War Diaries, and those would fill a hole.

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Gents

War Diary entry for 1st Bn RDF attached below. Sadly not a lot of detail. If anyone wants the full page of those for December please PM me with an email address and I'll pass them on.

Corisande - I'll send you a PM.

I hope this helps

Colin

Apologies for the quality - I'm not David Bailey!

CWT

post-47743-085587500 1294416659.jpg

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hi folks,dodnt know if this is anyhelp but from 'neills blue caps vol 3' : christmas day,1917,was passed bye the battalion in the front line,for on december 23rd it moved into brigade support ,the headquaters being accommodated in the cellars in the village of lempire,and the companies being distributed as follows :-''W'' company in malassise farm and old copse,''X'' company in lempire village,enfer wood and may copse,''Y'' company in old 'support trench' and ''Z'' company in the sunken road near battalion headquaters.here all ranks were under very heavy shelling by the enemy of the forward and back areas, 2 men being killed on the 26th by a high explosive shell,while the weather was very cold ,sleet or snow falling nearly every day that the dublins were in the line. on december 29th the battalion was relieved,and moved back to villers faucon,the accommadation here being nissen huts for the officers and adrian huts for non-commissioned officers and men,while battalion headquaters were in one of the few houses left standing in the village. cheers neville.

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Thanks Colin, Neville and Graham for the replies, every bit adds to the picture.

I'm new to this research and as I say have only managed to obtain a medal card for Albert Herman (41384), given he didn't qualify for either star medal I assume he must have been called up 1916 onwards, either as conscript or volunteer (formally in training reserve 5565).

Apologies if this is a basic question but in the absence of a service record is there any other resource I can consult to determine when he entered active service?

Thanks again Phil

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Albert Herman's SDGW entry says "Formerly 5565, Train. Res" but I doubt that is an RDF number, but it is difficlt to know.

And for what its worth 41358 in RDF enlisted 29 Jun 1916,

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Hi Corisande

Like you I dont believe the training reserve number relates to the RDF, as I understand it depleted batallions at that time were brought up to strength with soldiers from outside the normal recruitment area, hence a lad from Oxfordshire ending up in the RDF with number 41384.

If their numbers were issued sequentially (?) then I can assume he joined the RDF a little after the 29th June 1916, thanks for that

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The RDF numbering system goes a bit odd during the war. The run almost sequentially up to 32000s, then there is a gap to 40000, and you number here is the highest I have seen. The 40000 range is not all English, and does include many Irish enlistments.

But all things being equal I would but his arrival in RDF in Jul 1916.

You are presumably aware that the Irish RDF men were not conscripts as no conscription in Ireland, but as far as I know it would not have stopped an English conscript serving in an Irish regiment

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Thanks again Corisande

As my relative was english I guessed he could have been either a conscript or volunteer, he was 18/19 in 1916 so his age doesn't offer much indication. Your suggestion of joining the RDF July 1916 seems to fit the scenario, so much appreciated Phil

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Hi

In my research into Carnell I have that he was "13297, Training Reserve"

His service number was 40964, does that mean anything re enlistment dates ?

Graeme

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Graeme

Not a lot I am afraid. The only enlistment dates around then in my database are

40422 enlisted January 1916

41358 enlisted 29 Jun 1916

All things being equal I would take a punt at Mar 1916.

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