Divisional Routine Orders

[armourersergeant]

I have spent alot of yesterday at the Pro going through various docs but some time examining the Divisional diaries of 27th whist they were in Salonika.

Frequently there is a Divisional routine orders form that was obvioulsy circulated around the men, I assume that this was common practice to all units in the british army?

At the bottom of most of these reports is a sort of lost and found section , which could range from a dog has been lost to someones horse!!!, even at one time a saddle. Often in a following issue the found section shows the lost item turning up.

Two questions really, Has anyone come across this sort of lost and found section in div orders or was it particular to this Division or Salonika as a trend.

Secondly just where the hell did all these horses,dogs,donkies,cats,dogs and the like get to only to turn up days later?

Regards

Arm.

[Edward_N_Kelly]

Routine Orders were (and still are) divided into three parts.

RO Part One - basically announcements of policy by the commander and drections as to dress, drill, discipline and bearing, duties (eg Duty Officer and NCO rosters, periods of temporary appointment (to command units or sub units), delegating authority or powers of a Commanding Officer (you can be appointed to administer command of a unit or sub-unit but not have the powers of a Commanding Officer to punish), periods of leave for particular personnel, and as "social notices" like mess or canteen fuctions could be advertised (theis last part is at the discretion of the Officer under whose authority the RO is issued).

RO Part Two - dealt with personnel matters like substantive/acting/provisional/temporary/local promotions, awards of decorations or punishments, postings, TDY, etc. These were the authority quoted in the AB-B103 Record of Service held on every individual soldier (and I cannot remember the corresponing Officer Service Record form)

RO Part Three - have heard mention of these but unsure what they really are - perhaps deals with units as a whole rather than individuals ?

RO Part One by its nature must be freely available including posting on unit notice boards, etc. Failure to observe the directions of an RO was an offense in Military Law.

As to where they all went - in a bttlefield anything had a "life"....

Edward

(Who had the job in Australian Army at one stage preparing ROs One and Two and the transcription into the AB-B103 for several units - through post-Vietnam before anyone makes a ribald comment - and it had not changed since WWI coz my manual for doing it was dated 1923 (reprinted from 1913 !).......)

[Kate Wills]

Arm.

Did you find any mention of entertainments in the 27th Div. diaries?

As for the animals, there were any number of strays roaming the barren hillsides. Perhaps some of these wandered away to a quick and easy meal with an adjoining unit.

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

Two questions really, Has anyone come across this sort of lost and found section in div orders or was it particular to this Division or Salonika as a trend.

Secondly just where the hell did all these horses,dogs,donkies,cats,dogs and the like get to only to turn up days later?

Arm - Routine Orders are a very common find in WO95 at TNA, from Division upwards. They often contain interesting snippets, sometimes including the slightly bizarre. Some typical examples >

May 1915 7th Division. Routine Order No 226.

JAM TINS. Empty jam tins are required for making bombs, as many as can be collected are to be returned by Units to the re-filling point ... (etc.)

9/5/15. Routine Orders. Troops bathing in places open to public view are to wear bathing drawers. A.A. & Q.M.G., 7th Division.

May 1915. 7th Division. Routine Order No 228.

In order to assist our anti-aircraft gun sections in identifying our machines, the rudders of all our English (sic) built aeroplanes are now being painted with vertical red, white, and blue stripes in a similar manner to those of the French built aeroplanes.

15/2/17. Routine Orders. 1st Division.

219. Venereal Disease. A circular has been issued by G.H.Q. ordering that every officer or man who contracts venereal disease is to be deprived of leave for a year from the date he is discharged from hospital.

1st Div 15/5/17.

637. Shooting. Frequent complaints are still being received that soldiers shoot at wildfowl and game. This practice is dangerous and contrary to G.R.O. 1297. Severe disciplinary action will in future be taken against anybody who infringes this order."

HQ, 4th Corps. Routine orders. 16/6/15.

666. Shooting of Pigeons. The shotguns recently issued are for use against carrier pigeons only. The shooting of other pigeons in rear of the lines is strictly prohibited.

XIII Corps. Routine Orders. 4/1/16.

91. Dress. Balaclava caps are not to be worn except at night when a division is not actually in the line. This order is to be read out on parades of all units."

Routine Orders. 3rd Army. 19/1/1916.

612. Uncensored Letters. Many cases have recently come to notice in which men proceeding on leave have taken with them uncensored letters in order that they may be posted in England. In future, men about to proceed on leave will be informed that if at any time during their journey they are found in possession of uncensored letters, they will be placed in arrest and sent back to their units.

Routine Orders. III Corps. 20/10/17.

200. Killing of Game. As complaints are being received regarding the chasing of hares, thus causing damage to crops, attention is drawn to G.R.O. 1297, which is re published for information. 1297. Killing of Game. As cases still occur of officers and other ranks pursuing and killing game, it is notified that this is strictly prohibited.

With regards to the regular "lost & found" sections at the end of RO's, some pretty strange things seem to have "walked". Horses and bycicles are extremely common, but the strangest I have ever seen was a RO trying to find a French boy who had been "adopted as a mascot" by Britsh troops within the Division concerned. (I'm open to £££ wager on that one by the way, in case anybody thinks it's a fabrication !).

Edward - I have heard a theory (not my idea you understand) that the length of "lost & found" RO's increased exponentially as your unit moved closer to areas where Aussie Troop were billetted

regards - Tom

[armourersergeant]

Kate,

I was only quickly going through the orders as I was running out of time and then my batteries gave up the ghost, so i was looking for info as to when FW left the division and why. I did see one order but all it said was Divisional Entertainment party coming for a visit, I think this was the phrase and I beleive it was around xmas 1918.

I remeber it def said Divisional party because i thought why would the div party be visiting? it would surely have been Corps part? Anyway I meant to take a reference for you but in the 'rush' and excitement i forgot (throws himself on sword) Sorry...........Next time will allocate some time to read them thoroughly

On the Horse front, one entry gave a vivid discription of two or three horses the colour height etc hands isnt it, and saddles etc, obviously some sod had wondered off with the officers riding horses. I seem to remember seeing a mention in IWM records online off an officer complaining about riding recreation in Salonika whilst in 27th. Not sure if he was maoning not enough or if too much and not enough soldiering.

Regards

Arm.

[armourersergeant]

Tom,

I did see one lost and found that listed A bag and associated equipment belonging to a RSM 'A N Other'.....never did see if it turned up....bet he got some stick...someone was either very brave or very stupid....

Arm.

[Kate Wills]

Thanks Arm. I look forward to your next visit to the PRO!

I remember reading one CO's letter from Salonika, in which he remarks on the amount of time it took to cover his part of the line from one end to the other, and compares it with the short time such a task took him in France. I'll bring it along next week.

[Ivor Lee]

A couple of years ago whilst looking at a Routine Order at the PRO (as it was then) I came across an interesting snippet.

The Routine Order included details of a Field General Court Martial that resulted in a man being executed. It includes the charge, the man's name and the date that the punishment was carried out.

I think I am correct in saying that these WO 95 files have been in the public domain for many years. Certainly well before the files of men executed were released.

So, in theory at least, it would have been possible to identify men who were executed and their charges before their files were released.

In fact I think these files were in the Public domain even before Anthony Babington wrote his book in 1983.

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

I think I am correct in saying that these WO 95 files have been in the public domain for many years. Certainly well before the files of men executed were released. .......... In fact I think these files were in the Public domain even before Anthony Babington wrote his book in 1983.

Ivor - you are correct, in fact most '95's were released in the 1960's - however, in most cases which refer to executions etc you will find that the entry has been physically cut out. If you do find any intact then they have "slipped through".

regards - Tom

[Ivor Lee]

Tom

Thanks for the information.

It must have been my lucky day!

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

It must have been my lucky day!

Ivor - maybe your lucky day, but probably not for the poor soul mentioned in the RO

The "cut-out" RO's, which you particularly find in Corps files, appear to have been done with razor blades, presumably as a weeding exercise before WO95 documents were released to PRO (as it was then). In most instances where the top line or title of the RO is intact you normally see that it refers to some discipliniary matter / Court Martials (particularly officers) / executions, etc.

Murphy's Law dictates that on the other side of the sheet there will be some non-contentious matter which particularly interests you, and the cut-out will appear smack in the middle of it, destroying the continuity.

regards - Tom