JON1971 Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 HI, I`AM NEW TO THE FORUM AND WANTED TO KNOW COULD ANYONE ASSIST IN IDENTIFYING THESE 2 UVF ARMBANDS I AQUIRED FROM A WORK COLLEAGUE.THEY HAD BEEN PASSED DOWN THROUGHOUT HIS FAMILY FOR YEARS.ALSO THE BADGE IF POSSIBLE. THE BUCKLES SAY "SOLIDE" THANK. JON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 The crossed rifles badge [not the crown] signifies 'marksman', the highest category of rifle shot. The armband seems to be a private version of the official Geneva Cross worn by all military medical staff on duty in war. Your example lacks the official stamp on the rear which authenticates status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JON1971 Posted 26 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2008 The crossed rifles badge [not the crown] signifies 'marksman', the highest category of rifle shot. The armband seems to be a private version of the official Geneva Cross worn by all military medical staff on duty in war. Your example lacks the official stamp on the rear which authenticates status. thanks for info although all i can say in relation to the armbands are that the person i got them off would be a very honest person who has had the armbands for years,passed down through the family.Surely not all items would have been stamped.? thanks. jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 Crown - Top part of Royal Irish Fusiliers Cap badge? Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Jock Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 Looks Ulster Volunteer Force arm band to me Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smilingsixth Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 HI, I`AM NEW TO THE FORUM AND WANTED TO KNOW COULD ANYONE ASSIST IN IDENTIFYING THESE 2 UVF ARMBANDS I AQUIRED FROM A WORK COLLEAGUE.THEY HAD BEEN PASSED DOWN THROUGHOUT HIS FAMILY FOR YEARS.ALSO THE BADGE IF POSSIBLE. THE BUCKLES SAY "SOLIDE" THANK. JON Jon, Try and get hold of a copy of Ray Westlakes superb book KITCHENERS ARMY, have a look at page 139 to 145 , as very good potted history of the 36th Ulster Division, on page 142 shows six arm bands/brassards very similar to yours , it mentions " The majority of units in the Ulster Volunteer Force did not have uniforms and for identification the men wore a brassard on their left arm" The six examples shown are held in the Ulster Museum in Belfast. Hopes this helps - Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 My understanding is that the Manual of Military Law and the Geneva Convention require medical armbands to be stamped by the issuing authority. Which is NOT to say that your item is not genuine of the period, but that it may not be official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JON1971 Posted 26 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2008 Jon, Try and get hold of a copy of Ray Westlakes superb book KITCHENERS ARMY, have a look at page 139 to 145 , as very good potted history of the 36th Ulster Division, on page 142 shows six arm bands/brassards very similar to yours , it mentions " The majority of units in the Ulster Volunteer Force did not have uniforms and for identification the men wore a brassard on their left arm" The six examples shown are held in the Ulster Museum in Belfast. Hopes this helps - Simon THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP SIMON.MUST TAKE A TRIP UP TO THE ULSTER MUSEUM.THIS IS THE ONLY UVF ITEMS I HAVE.NEVER SEEN THEM BEFORE THIS.I COLLECT GERMAN WW2. THANKS. JON] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinbelfast Posted 27 February , 2008 Share Posted 27 February , 2008 THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP SIMON.MUST TAKE A TRIP UP TO THE ULSTER MUSEUM.THIS IS THE ONLY UVF ITEMS I HAVE.NEVER SEEN THEM BEFORE THIS.I COLLECT GERMAN WW2. THANKS. JON] I'd leave it about two years....its closed at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JON1971 Posted 27 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2008 I'd leave it about two years....its closed at the minute. thanks for that.!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 10 March , 2008 Share Posted 10 March , 2008 These are pre-war issue armbands as worn by UVF medical corps ... which was very well established. As such they would not have been worn in WW1 but they are in superb shape. I agree that the crown on the badge looks as if it was 'lifted' from a Royal Irish Fusilier cap badge. Look at these 'Home Rule' museum exhibits - you will see a similar armband for North Antrim Regt abive the bust of Carson. You will also see a pic of a UVF man flanked by his sisters in UVF Nursing Corps uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 10 March , 2008 Share Posted 10 March , 2008 http://www.freewebs.com/ballymenaww1/carsonsarmy191214.htm more here .. scroll down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JON1971 Posted 10 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2008 desmond, thanks for your pics and info.i sort of thought they might be pre ww1.the cap badge and rifle badges were part of the lot i was given.i`ll post another pic of the armbands.they are in superb condition. thanks. jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Barbara Posted 12 March , 2008 Share Posted 12 March , 2008 Finding this very interesting, Grandad was from Holywood, but in the South Down Militia, when the war started he went into t he 36th Division ( Royal Irish Rifles) He will of course have been in the UVF. Barbara.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JON1971 Posted 13 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2008 barbara, the armbands had been in the same family from outside portadown for over 80years.i would love to be able to trace who they originally belonged to.i`am only starting to research local history because of them.before hand i never had much interest because of our past(troubles).but these or different.it seems there or alot of people really into ww1/home rule collecting. thanks for your reply. jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Barbara Posted 13 March , 2008 Share Posted 13 March , 2008 Jon, it's all part of history, from nurses to gun running.! regards.. Barbara.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollydot Posted 14 March , 2008 Share Posted 14 March , 2008 For locals from Belfast Does anyone know if Fernhill (Fern) House is still open? I haven't been ther for a couple of years and I know there was talk of no funding etc. If it was still on the go Barbara might get some answers there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Barbara Posted 14 March , 2008 Share Posted 14 March , 2008 Ollydot, I shall keep looking in ........ regards, Barbara.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinbelfast Posted 14 March , 2008 Share Posted 14 March , 2008 For locals from Belfast Does anyone know if Fernhill (Fern) House is still open? I haven't been ther for a couple of years and I know there was talk of no funding etc. If it was still on the go Barbara might get some answers there... 100% closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 15 March , 2008 Share Posted 15 March , 2008 I found the following listing of UVF medical units on a sheet of contemporary UVF headed notepaper. It may be of interest: MAIN HOSPITAL FOR OVERSEAS SICK AND WOUNDED - Botanic Avenue, Belfast BRANCH HOSPITAL FOR OVERSEAS SICK AND WOUNDED - Bannvale, Gilford, Co. Down HOSPITAL FOR LIMBLESS AND ORTHOPAEDIC - University Road, Belfast HOSPITAL FOR NEURASTHENIA AND SHELL-SHOCK - Craigavon, Belfast HOSPITAL FOR OFFICERS - Botanic Avenue, Belfast HOSPITAL FOR CONVALESCENT OFFICERS - Dunbarton House, Gilford, Co. Down I had not appreciated that the UVF provided such a comprehensive array of treatment centres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Barbara Posted 16 March , 2008 Share Posted 16 March , 2008 I knew they had a comprehensive medical system up and running but it's nice to have the addresses Horatio, grandad was machine gunned the 1st day of the battle of the Somme, I've often wondered where he would have been treated Barbara.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollydot Posted 16 March , 2008 Share Posted 16 March , 2008 Am I correct in remembering something about a UVF hospital off the Ormeau Road in Belfast, possibly a convalescent place?? Also I think there was one in East Belfast somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterlad Posted 16 March , 2008 Share Posted 16 March , 2008 Hi ollydot, the one in East Belfast is still "operational". It is now The Somme Nursing Home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob elliott Posted 16 March , 2008 Share Posted 16 March , 2008 Hi, During the war there were two hospitals in Belfast and they set one up in France too. The UVF patriotic fund supplied many ambulances during the war fully kitted. The house in East Belfast was James Craig's home. If you look at a lot of the old East Belfast UVF or Special Service Section photos they were taken on the front drive. He gave it over to be the 'Somme Hospital' which it was until a few years ago, but the newer bulding in the grounds is still a nursing home. The main house was the base for the Somme association until the museum was built. There was always talk of doing it up, but i think the money could never be raised. Went up there a few times. Always thought about Carson and Craig discussing the UVF there, amazing bit of history. Yes Fernhill has gone. I phoned them a few weeks ago as there is still a caretaker there. Most of the bits have gone back to the people who donated it i think. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Harland Posted 21 March , 2008 Share Posted 21 March , 2008 Armbands look to refer to 2nd South Down Bttn of the UVF. This was formed in 1913 as part of the Home Rule crisis. There is a picture of their colours on the the www.uvf.info site. The name Bttn was not indicative of the size of the unit, there were several South Down 'battalions' They would not have an 'official' mark on them, as at the time it was believed t they would be fighting some or all of the Britsh Army. Equally they do not look as if they have seen the rigours of the front line in the trenches. On the outbreak of war the UVF moved to join the 36th (Ulster) Div ( sometimes known as the 'political' division). Enlistment was mainly through the TF battalions, with 1st Co Down Volunteers being the 13th Royal Irish Rifles, but it was not a direct transfer of a unit ( unlike some of the privately raised Kitchener battalions, which were then adopted fully formed by the Army). Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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