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Remembered Today:

R.E. special units


stu

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Can anyone help me,I'm trying to find out what R.E."Z" special companies were,it has been suggested to me that they were something to do with flamethrowers and not gas as I originally thought they were.

Many thanks.

Stu.

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The suggestion is quite correct. Z Coy of the RE Special Brigade was formed in June 1916 under Capt W H Livens RE. It originally consisted of six heavy and 24 medium flamethrowers, which dispensed burning fuel from a nozzle. They were very unwieldy and not very successful. Livens, however, had also developed his Livens Projector, which made its battlefield debut at Pozieres on 28 July 1916. This was essentially a mortar which fired an incendairy bomb filled with oil. Z Coy was equipped with this for the remainder of the war.

Charles M

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Stu

The RE Special Brigade dealt with chemical warfare. It was organised in 5 Battalions. 1st to 4th Bns dealt with gas (companies designated A to Q, four per Bn.) 5th Bn consisted of the mortar units for gas projectors, 4" Stokes chemical mortar etc. Z Company was the brigade's flamethrower company and was not part of a specific battalion.

Good information of their activities in "Chemical Soldiers" by Donald Richter- originally published 1992 by University Press of Kansas but I think it has recently been reissued by a UK publisher.

Mike

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Thanks Charles and Mike for the info,very interesting.

Charles,can I assume from the info you posted that the flamethowers that Z company used were not of a similar variety to the ones the Germans used,but were actually a static device.

Is it also possible for you to advise me as to the structure of Z company,including deployments,were they situated in the front line like trench mortars?

Many thanks.

Stu

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Stu

There are two albums of photgraphs in the IWM Photo library which show some men and equipment of the Special Brigade. These include the Livens Projector and semi-portable flame throwers being demonstrated. There is also a photograph of the large Livens "Flammenwerfer", but this is hidden away in another album which is entirely unconnected with the chemical warfare volumes.

As has been stated above, the Livens Projector was used for firing oil bombs or "drums". Initial gas filling was with chlorine but the principal filling was phosgene or chloropicrine.

Terry Reeves

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Thanks Terry,that was a quick reply.

Do you know if these pictures are available on line,and do you think the R.E. museum have any?

Many thanks.

Stu

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Stu

The pictures are not available on line. The people to contact are the RE Corps Library, although the Museum may well have some as well. You can find their details on the web.

I hope Charles M won't mind me answering your other questions. Z Coy consisted of 4 Sections, an RE section being roughly the equivilent of an infantry platoon. Each section was commanded by a section commander who was a subaltern. Out of interest, all other member of the SB ie the cylinder companies, were also trained in, and used the the projector.

The projectors were normally arranged in batteries of twent-five and dug in at an angle to with in a few inches of the muzzle. Each battery was staggered, so that the shock of firing did not knock out of position the adjacent one. A twenty-five "gun" battery was commanded by a Cpl. The projectiles were fired simultaeneously by an electrical firing circuit. Batteries were always within a couple of hundred yards of the front line.

With regard to the large Flammenwerfer, or Gallery Projector. This was a huge device which was fired from an underground gallery, some 45 feet long. The projecting nozzle had special cutting blades attached which could bore a hole big enough in the soil to allow the flame to be projected out to about a hundred feet. The blades were driven by the same compressed air that propelled the fuel. Although three of them were used on the Somme in 1916, their size, weight and the fact that it took about a ton of fuel to produce a single then second shot made them impracticable. Equally once the enemy had realised their location, they could move to avoid them. Z Company's perigrinations can be found in their war diary at the National Archive. As has already been mentioned Richters book gives a good account along with photo's and Gas! The Story of the Special Brigade by CH Foulkes is the SB's original history.

Out of interest, I am able to identify most men who served with the Brigade, with some exceptions, and have details of most of their officers. Did you have anybody in mind? As well as a name, I would also need a number and rank for OR's. From that I can tell whether he had been transferred in from another regiment or corps, or whether he was an original member of the special companies.

Terry Reeves

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A semi-portable flamethrower was built by the British. It was 'a two man device that contained 12 gallons of fuel in a single tank, discharged by gas from another tank. It was not meant to be carried in action, however, and only had a range of 35 yd'. Twenty-four of these devices, designed by Livens, were shipped to France for the Somme offensive. They were used twice in July and once in September. Notably, the semi-portable device was also used in the Zeebrugge Raid.

Several other designs were tested, sometimes with nasty consequences to the tester! None of these entered service.

One of the problems with flamethrowers was the need to use liquid fuel. It took the development of petroleum-based gel, thickened with napalm, to enable better quality flamethrowers.

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Hi Stu - I have material on a man who served with 'P' Coy - and on the way I have some material on 'Z' Coy - contact me off list if you'd like a copy.

Cheers

Simon

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Terry,ref your last post,my man is Capt T.W.Hardy M.C.

Any info and/or photos will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

Stu

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Stu

Capt TW Hardy MC:

Address - Canvey Island, Essex.

Profession - Electrical Engineer.

Served in the ranks of 10th Bn Royal Fusiliers.

Temporary 2Lt RE 27.12.16 and joined Z Company, Special Brigade same date.

To Egypt 1.4.18.

Captain 7.7.18.

If you can add any information yourself I would be obliged.

Terry Reeves

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Hi Terry,

Capt T.W.Hardy M.C. was awarded his M.C. for an incident on 6/5/17 in which his company were in the process of preparing some projectors for an action,a wagon containing propellant was hit by a stray shell,the resulting explosion alerted the Germans that something was up and they then shelled the area thoroughly.

Capt Hardy(2nd Lt at the time) was awarded the M.C. for his coolness and courage in getting away the casualties under the shelling.

I don't think he was wounded in this action but he did receive a GSW to the face on 11/7/16 as a Pte in the Stockbrokers Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers.

Capt Hardy was sent to Egypt in 1918 on the advice of doctors,he had an ear cattagh problem causing partial deafness,it was recommended that a warm climate would improve the condition,(would he have been sent to Egypt if he had stayed an O.R.!!!),whilst there he was appointed divisional gas commander of (I think) the 71st division until demob in 1919.

I'am about to acquire his M.C. group,it is an ammazing group that comes with an incredible amount of original paperwork,I think there may also be a 1917 instruction manual for the Livens Projector with the group.

Regards.

Stu.

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Stu

Thanks for the information. I have an account of that operation. If you don't already have it, email me and I will send you a copy.

Terry Reeves

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Arthur CHAMBERLAIN - 134873 -Sapper - “Z” Special Company. Royal Engineers

Killed In Action on the 3rd April 1917 aged 25

Arthur was serving in “Z” company of the Royal Engineers.

Unit War Diary indicates that on the 3rd April 1917 during an assault with gas shells some of the deadly poison drifted back towards the British lines but there is insufficient evidence to show that this was the cause of his death.

Can anyone confirm this please or give further insight into the action on that day.

Thanks

PAUL JOHNSON :ph34r:

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