healdav Posted 11 February , 2004 Share Posted 11 February , 2004 Could I add that the more I think about this, the more complicated it becomes. I take groups around the trenches near Pont à Mousson (and I'm always delighted to hear of anything that affects them, whether postcards or anything else). Last year I was horrified to find that some official group (I don't know who) have put posts and chains and an information panel around a small part and explains that these were French dugouts. It completely spoils the 'totally untouched' atmosphere of the area (which everyone remarks on). However, not far away, I was driving around one day and suddenly saw a new sign. I followed it and found that an area had been cchained off and a couple of large boards explained that this was where there had been several mines (German) exploded under the front lines. There is now a sort of trail around the area. Without the sign and noticeboards I would never have known (one big hole looks much like any other). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 a message to marco and others regarding the e.u.-----------one thing we have picked up on on living in a country other than england is that the country i live in in my eyes does exactly what it wants when it comes to e.u. law and as far as i can see britain bends over backwards to comply---------this coming from a person of british nationality living in another e.u. country where absolutly NOTHING preserved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientpoints Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 as far as i can see britain bends over backwards to comply Thats why we are in such a mess too many chiefs and not enough indians amongst many other things we all know are just plain stupid and simply keep suits employed at our expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 one thing we have picked up on on living in a country other than england is that the country i live in in my eyes does exactly what it wants when it comes to e.u. law and as far as i can see britain bends over backwards to comply NIGEL that's what I always say, we Brits seem to stick to the E.U. rules but other counties seem not to. Plus when it could to the original question, money will always win over preservation which ever country you are in. My council want to build a so called Eco park (can not see that loads of concrete and bricks are very Eco friendly) on the out skirts of my town, most people seem to be against it but the powers that be are still going to build it, once they build there it will open the area up to the developers, who do not give a stuff about anything but the money that going into their pockets. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 a message to marco and others regarding the e.u.-----------one thing we have picked up on on living in a country other than england is that the country i live in in my eyes does exactly what it wants when it comes to e.u. law and as far as i can see britain bends over backwards to comply---------this coming from a person of british nationality living in another e.u. country where absolutly NOTHING preserved The euro, the Schengen (sp?) agreement, etc, etc. Britain is the exception in each case. That 'we are complying' is between your ears. I follow Dutch, French, German and British news and no-one complains more 'about Europe' than the British. Even in my field of work (laboratory) the British do not follow the agreed upon EC methods of analysis. They have their own. Don't get me wrong, I'm an Anglophile but for their non-compliance the UK should be kicked out of the EC. Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 you ought to see the non-complience where i am------but the original subject is a bit like anything else if one flouts the rules others follow and then nobody bothers anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen White Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 you ought to see the non-complience where i am------but the original subject is a bit like anything else if one flouts the rules others follow and then nobody bothers anymore Reading many of the replies to this thread,it's all soooooo typical of the organisation i work for The Post Office !!. NO ONE cares anymore,if they ever did in the first place,which i doubt. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 the UK should be kicked out of the EC The sooner the better, if you ask me. Can anyone tell me why, when French workers have a beef with their own goverment do they bloke the channel ports, which costs British firms hundreds because they can't deliever their goods. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 wonder what was on annettes mind in the previous posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 wonder what was on annettes mind in the previous posting A booze-cruise ? Can anyone tell me why, when French workers have a beef with their own goverment do they bloke the channel ports, which costs British firms hundreds because they can't deliever their goods. Indeed. But with you out of the EC exporting will be even more difficult due to trade-barriers. And getiing in would be more difficult for you too. On the plus-side going from France to the UK would make that a non-EU destiny so you could even buy more booze for the same money because it will be duty free! Everybody happy Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 marco--------i am sorry mate but its the e.u. is the one who is retaining trade barriers to protect its agriculture for one the rest of the world is up in arms about this----also its vastly out of date it is a global economy now not a little gang who can only keep going by letting more people in so they have access to the lower countries to move business into those countries with the help of e.u. funding and tax breaks funded by the poor e.u. citizens.------ any organization eventually breaks up or has to shed its non profit or dependancy departments----in otherwords all this will sooner or later fall apart and the countries which can stand on there own two feet will survive, the alternative would be cival war within the e.u. or back to 1914 and 1939 with another country probably america or china maybe russia--------and before you shout at me remember i live in one of those so called poor countries who have all that lovely money thrown at them----AND ITS GREAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 i am sorry mate but its the e.u. is the one who is retaining trade barriers to protect its agriculture for one the rest of the world Thats what I meant Nigel. Exporting for the UK will then be even more difficult then when some angry French farmers / fishers / lorry drivers (hec. everybody in France is angry ) block the ports. Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 I am lost marco ---its a global economy ----everything doesnt go through france----or am i missing what you said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 No problem Nigel, I'll show you the way: You wouldn't be able to export so easily to the EC, which is growing as you know. I'm rather surprised we haven't been stopped yet regarding this subject. Are the moderators on a booze-cruise as well? Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 Marco, See your point on this but there is another side to it as well, i.e. The Euro, France and Germany set strict guidelines as to borrowing, economies etc etc none of which is kept too on there part. Re what to do with your land, there was an awful lot of British blood spilt on Belgium land, hence i am sure that you can understand the deep emotions this causes. As to being kicked out of the EEC this to me does not present me with a problem, just a personal view you understand. Best Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 February , 2004 Share Posted 14 February , 2004 theres alot more you can add to that about how brits feel about the whole thing ---the e.u. marco hasnt got his facts right about the exports as for being members i dont think britain would be bothered or affected if the membership ceased tomorrow its just poloticians who drive that, but i think its time to leave this behind as it could go the wrong way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 15 February , 2004 Share Posted 15 February , 2004 i think its time to leave this behind as it could go the wrong way I'll seconded that Nigal, seeing I was the one that kicked this little ding dong off. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 15 February , 2004 Share Posted 15 February , 2004 Nigel, It’s a feel thing indeed for you and that’s part of the problem, Lots of Brits don’t want to be in, so get out. I think it would be more disastrous than you think. And the EC shouldn’t accept the fact that the UK doesn’t go along with the important things like the euro and Schengen. You seem to be in it for the fun bits only (like European opening hours for your pubs, trade benefits etc.) As said I’m an Anglophile who was described by a tour guide to a bunch of Canadian and British officers and soldiers as someone who sleeps under a union jack bedspread.... In general I love you. But the world is not black-and-white and regarding you being in the EC thats wrong and in regards to telling the French and Belgians where to put their roads you are wrong. It can be argued that some (most?) important UK battlefield were preserved by rich individuals only (like Battle and Culloden), that you haven’t done a great job of preserving more (yes I know there are some) US 8th Air Force airfields for example and that most of France and Belgium was a battlefield one time or another so you couldn't really build anything. To tell the Belgians they cannot get the A19 extension without which makes for a ridiculous traffic situation I can not understand. I hope to be one of the first people to use the new extension to drop the ladies off at Oostende so I can swiftly return to the salient to have some time there for myself. I disagree with you regarding my facts, you have not done anything to disprove them and as said, get out the EC and let’s see. I agree with you to put and end to this. Not because it might get out of hand (we are all adults here are we not?) but more because we are repeating ourselves and it’s not really ww1 and I see the moderators have returned from their booze-cruise.... Nigel, where are you located exactly? I feel we might have some things to discuss over a pint. A pint of bitter ofcourse, not that pale European crap! Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 15 February , 2004 Share Posted 15 February , 2004 as regards facts and getting in or out of the e.u. or anything like that this shouldnt have been bought up ----------as for telling another country the best place for a road or development i dont know the details but i personally think that--------- A grave or war grave on land or under the sea should be respected and left alone A battle field containing unfound or buried remains i think falls into that department The battle area or zone relatives wish to visit and also a very much growing number of tourists which benefits the economy of that area.----removing the atraction will remove the tourists etc, etc, etc,------as far as i know tourist dont go to see a road or even the locals they go to see the place Of course the is going to be a time period on this how long i dont know as long as there is an interest, certainly not anywhere less than a 100 years. I personly think it is highly disrespectful of anybody to just shove aside anybody who gave their life or even fought to stop that country from being taken over by an angresser -------somebody gave his life so those people can be their today what else could anybody do for another person like they say it is the ultimate sacrifice-----and that marco is what gets up the noses of british people and others-----i suppose a similar situation could have happened on british soil but i dont know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 15 February , 2004 Share Posted 15 February , 2004 Nigel, We disagree. Regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Heyvaert Posted 16 February , 2004 Share Posted 16 February , 2004 You seem to be in it for the fun bits only (like European opening hours for your pubs This actually belongs on the utterly off-topic list, but anyway.. Well, I was quite disappointed when I moved to Sheffield that all the traditional pubs close at 11. Well, today they even kicked me out at 10.30! Come on, In Belgium I never go to a pub before 10.30!!!! Your English pubs are sooo nice and the beer is not bad at all, whatever they say on the continent. Any chance they will close the closing hour? The bars with a special licence to keep open until 1 or 2 are mostly quite awfull. regards, Bert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 16 February , 2004 Share Posted 16 February , 2004 I have to disagree that this subject is off-topic. I have not changed my mind about the preservation of the Battlefields or indeed the preservation of graves and I note the thread about the movement of graves in Ypres. I am sure there are wiser Historians than me out there but it is fair to say that Britain was dragged into both the Ist and 2nd War due to Treaties,Belgium and Poland. The EU was set up partly in response to History and it is now clear that despite minor disagreements it is unlikely that UK,France and Germany will ever face each other again over the barrel of a gun. Yes,UK could withdraw from the EU but to what?The Country made a conscious decision to lessen ties with its traditional trading partners before joining the EEC,e.g.Commonwealth and as these Counties have made new trading links.It is unlikely they would be interested in re-opening full trade with UK. I remember someone once saying that if Scotland and England were stopped from playing sporting internationals with each other it is possible that the old rivalries would emerge and we have a current example of what could happen in the Balkans. Please let's learn from History,but not let it rule our lives,let sport do the fighting and look forward. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 16 February , 2004 Share Posted 16 February , 2004 I n answer to the previous quote-----------Only a FOOL turns away a customer with MONEY to spend so that argument falls flat on its face.--------- but this is about how long we preserve the graves and battlefields, has anybody worked out what would happen to the local economies of these areas, i suppose that would be a deciding factor in the time period before the area was redeveloped and the graves moved but i still think it should be no less than a 100 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 16 February , 2004 Share Posted 16 February , 2004 has anybody worked out what would happen to the local economies of these areas, i suppose that would be a deciding factor in the time period before the area was redeveloped and the graves moved but i still think it should be no less than a 100 years No progressive western economy is based on tourism. Wealth generation is all to do with the production and movement of goods. This cannot be done without expansion and that means building things (in itself a wealth generator). I have one GGrandfather and 3 Great Uncles lost forever under the soil of Flanders. They ostensably fought and died for justice and freedom, to me this freedom means that the people of Belgium and France have a right and a duty to make the best lives for their families that they can. If this means building infrastructure that impinges on the battlefield sites, then so be it. My only concern would be that any remains that are found are dealt with in a suitably respectful manner, and as this has been the case thus far I have no concerns at all. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 16 February , 2004 Share Posted 16 February , 2004 you could argue about how big an industry tourism is all day i live near a tourist town and its that economy which has bought the wealth here ----what about spain a third world dictatorship until mass tourism---------anyway thats for another day but its good to hear the views of Andy who is one of the people who all this is about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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