Welsh Fusiliers and Military Police

[Zumfan]

I am trying to make sense of my grandfather's war record. He enlisted on 8th Sept 1914 ( even though he was by then 49, which puzzles me for starters) and was in both the Welsh Fusiliers and the Military Police. His RWF number was 61886 which he also held for a time with the MFP to which he was transferred for duty with the Egyptian Expeditionary Force. His number changed to 5996.

Was it normal to transfer like this, or was it punishment? He seems to have been reprimanded several times, and court martialled too for a 15 min absence from duty whilst on HMT Clan MacGilliway. All in all, he doesn't seem to have been a very good character, but it makes for interesting writing!!

[ian turner]

Zumfan,

Welcome to the forum.

I guess he cannot have been too bad to have been in the MPs! Of course it is not possible to guess at his character, but not to forget that the transgressions of military discipline are not necessarily a sign of bad character. You were disciplined for breaches of military conduct of varying degrees all, the way from dirty shoes or buttons through to murder!

Did he have previous, peacetime police experience?

Otherwise, perhaps due to his age, his services may have been better empolyed in the policing duty rather than frontline service. I would not have thought his transfer was due to any punishment. It is more likely due to the requirements of manpower in different units. Transfer between battalions and regiments ws not at all unusual.

Ian

[truthergw]

I have never heard of a transfer to MPs being regarded as a punishment. Fairly fussy guys, usually. The 15 minutes late for parade on a ship might well have resulted in appearing in front of his company commander. Are you sure it was a court martial? Very few soldiers did their time without ending up in front of their CO for misdemeanours. To be court martialed for a minor offence of this nature may mean that he refused to accept his CCs punishment. This was any soldier's entitlement. He may have felt that he was being unfairly punished. Do you know the outcome of the Court martial?

[Zumfan]

Thanks for those responses. I am using notes I made some years ago after a visit to PRO, so there may be errors, but I have it that he was court martialled for his 15 minute absence when in charge of the gangway. He was reduced from corporal to private.

I don't know if he had any previous military experience; I can't find him anywhere in the 1901 census. I suppose he may have been in the Boer War. Would his military numbers have been the same then? When WW1 broke out he was a postman.

I also don't know what battalion he was with. My notes say he was transferred to RWF 6 Garrison 29.9.1916. Is that a clue to the battalion? His other misdemeanours were failure to parade, once in Jaffa and once in Kantara both in April 1918. And twice in 1916 reprimanded for neglect of duty.

I have notice one respondent on this site seems able to deduce things from service numbers.

I am grateful for any remarks on his character because I can't quite make him out, but I know my grandmother wouldn't have him back after the war.

[mhifle]

Hi,

Is this his Medal Card?

Regards Mark

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

[Muerrisch]

The five didit number you provided is NOT a RWF early-war one.

[Zumfan]

The five didit number you provided is NOT a RWF early-war one.

In my notes it is a number he had whilst with military police and RWF. Strange. When do you think he would have joined then?

I don't have any medals but the numbers are what I gleaned from Kew.

[Muerrisch]

a five digit begininning 6 is rather late in the war.

[Intrados]

HI i have the same scenario with one of my searches ! My g/grandfather. was enlisted to yorkshire rgt. Have a photo of him in Egypt wearing an MMP arm band he would be in his 40,s too. Medal card turns up 2 numbers , last one for RWF . RWF museum say its not a number they recognise , documents clearly say he was in that outfit . My man had a lot of previous service with the yorks rgt. in Burma and S/Africa when he was younger but was charged with desertion at one point in his career !

[Zumfan]

Hi,

Is this his Medal Card?

Regards Mark

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

Thank you for that link, Mark. I was a bit slow there, and didn't realise what you were pointing too at first. Would I get any more info that that if I payed the £3.50?

And, Grumpy, can you give me a fresh opinion on the service number there which now says 5996 for WF and p/15415 for MP?

Family legend says Edgar was a cook in the war in Egypt. I didn't think that sounded consistent but I guess even WF and MP needed to eat.

[mhifle]

Hi,

You might get some more information but is just down to luck with the Medal Card, it could just be very basic or quite extensive.

Regards Mark

[Muerrisch]

4 digit number is either 3rd battalion special reserve, or one of 4,5,6 or 7th, all Territorial Force.

[Zumfan]

Well, I paid my money, and as you say, little info. But can you translate for me the medal notes please?

MFP/101B7 is written next to Victory Medal. Is it 101 Battalion? And what about the 7? Are the war diaries for this unit available?

There are dashes not dittos for British medal. Any significance in this?