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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

AIF? LH?


mctaz

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I don't know who these two blokes are, but the photo is marked "Dover Studios" Moonee Ponds (Melbourne)

I don't think they're AIF as I can't identify the Divisional patches.

Both soldiers are wearing riding breeches and leather leggings.

The collar dogs are not Rising Suns, it was suggested that the men were Light Horse when I bought the image.

Can anyone identify the patches and/or collar dogs?

Jim

post-10363-1203039492.jpg

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Hi Jim, not sure about the collar badges, but is the fella standing wearing the patch of the 1st Remount Unit of the Light Horse?

cheers, Jon

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Thanks guys, looking at the same website also indicates the bloke sitting down could be 2nd Anzac Corps Mounted Regiment.

Had a look through the badges, but couldn't find any that matched.

Cheers

Jim

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Mates,

Yes the standing soldier in 1st Remts while the sitting soldier is the 4th LHR (1914/15)

As to the badge it was commen for soldiers to wear there Milita badges in the AIF early in the war, but it isn't a LH badge.

S.B

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Hi

is it not Australian Army Service Corps - The Remount unit had both men from the ASC and the AVC in its ranks in the British Army - would have thought the Australians would have had a similar establishment.

regards

John

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I think John has it! ASC but I think AVC attached to a re-mount Bn Attached (I hope) ASC badge.

Cheers Rob.

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What period is this picture thought to be? Would a corporal with shirt and tie not be likely to be WWII or later? Not up on Australian matters so I would be interested to know.

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Thanks guys,

Steve are you certain on the 4th LH? shouldn't the diagonal white sector on the div patch be the other way around?

Regarding the collar & tie, it was the sitting soldier's wedding photo, I've seen others where they wear good civvie clobber underneath their tunic.

Jim

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The men are definitely pre WW2 ... often photographers carried props for these types of photos ... was not unusual to find 'odd' bits and pieces appearing in photographs that are confusing for the people of today. Sometimes the service records (if the photograph is named) has revealed the truth about the units served in although the props say otherwise.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

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Jim,

In a perfect world you could be right but soldiers don't always sew there patches as per the book.

In 1914-15 the 4th LHR had these colours (white over red) but they changed to the 2nd Anzac Regt colours when the RHQ + B Sqn and D Sqn 4 LHR went to France in 1916 and the 2nd Anzac LHR was formed.

The new 4th LHR, still in Egypt, took the colours Light Blue over dark blue.

The 1st Remouts was formed in late 1915 and disappeared in the mid of 1916, the ARU was formed from the 1st and 2nd Remount units.

So the colour patches for both soldiers have a difined period possible late 1915 or some time early 1916?

As to the wearing of shirts and tie's yes soldiers did it all the time, more so at home in aussie or on leave in the UK.

As to the different cut of uniforms, with the rapid expention of the AIF in 1915 uniform patterns were given to a number of companys to make and their colour and pattern was not always the same.

Added to the fact that active service did lighten the colour of the uniform particularly in the desert. Some uniforms of poor quality turned almost white.

But as to these boys I've no idea when or where the photo was taken without seeing the back of the photo for any studio marks.

S.B

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Jim,

I have researched three sources. A hardboard cover folder with a colour supplement inside The Record of the Australian Imperial Force of which the lower half displays the colour patches, "Colour Patches of the Australian Imperial Force 1914 -1918" which is an appendix to Bean's OH Vol III The AIF in France 1916 and the Colour Patch Register 1915 -1949 issued by the Australian Army in 1993.

The first two references show the 1st Remount Unit as a horizontal rectangle divided white, dark blue, white horizontally and the 2nd Remount Unit as the same colour patch but worn vertically. The third reference has no indication of these colour patches although it has a copy of an AIF Order para 613 issued after March 1917 with a drawing of the colour patch for the Australian Remount Unit being a white diamond measuring 2 inches on each side with a vertical dark blue rectangle in the centre measuring 1&1/2 inches by 1/2 inch.

The horizontal rectangle split diagonally was worn only by LH Regiments and the only three that have a light colour above a dark colour are the original 4 LH Regt patch and the 2nd Anzac Mounted Regt both of which were white over red as mentioned by Steve and the second 4 LH Regt patch - light blue over dark blue.

The authority for 2 Anzac Mounted Regiment and the change of the 4 LH Regt to Light Blue over Dark Blue is D.A.G. AIF 15 75 of 8.8.17 and cancels AIF Order No 179 of 27.6.16 as regards 4 LH Regt so this might help date the photo.

Cheers

Chris

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Thanks Steve, thanks Chris, as ever I'm amazed at the depth of knowledge, forum members have on here!

I was in some doubt about the time period!

As you'll see in the full image the wedding dress length is somewhat shorter than other photos I have from the 14-19 era.

But I still thought it had to be during the war as the older guy (standing) doesn't show any ribbons as you'd expect if the photo was taken in the early 1920's.

Unfortunately there's nothing on the back of the image that can shed any light, the image was Dover Studios in Moonee Ponds.

Thanks again to you both, & everyone else for your help.

Jim

post-10363-1203245119.jpg

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Mate,

I know this is a long shot but I entered the fields 4 LHR and Remts in my data base to see what came up.

I found these soldiers with the comection

LONG Benjamin Marshman Jnr 439 Pte 4 LHR father Benjamin in Remts

SNODGRASS William Archibald Purcell 334 Pte 4 LHR brother Archie 1 Remts

Of cause I am not saying that these men maybe the ones in the photo but it was fun to check them out?

S.B

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Steve,

Going by the descriptions in their papers, the Longs were the best fit.

However, neither of them made Cpl, but I guess they can't be ruled out.

Scanning the photo in at 600 dpi shows that photo-retouching isn't anything new, all of them have had some cosmetic "surgery" accomplished by an expert retoucher. So the soldier standing could well be the father of the groom,

Cheers

Jim

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  • 3 weeks later...

The amount of lower leg showing suggests about 1923-25. Too much leg showing to be much before that really, and 1926 was when things started to get knee length.

Amazing what one picks up from one's sister. Strange that she hasn't picked up War Stuff from me, though... ;)

Allie

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I am just an interested onlooker. Does anyone else find it strange that the younger soldier ( groom) is sitting? Not his wife or father?

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He may not be the groom? The bride looks like she's standing closer to the chap in the suit... although one would assume the couple in the centre would be the bridal pair.

But it certainly is an odd arrangement how they have the people paired and seated/standing.

Allie

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It was the custom at the time for the groom to be seated :)

Bright Blessings

Sandra

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  • 8 years later...

Hi Jim,

Well, I am a few years late to the party, but I arrived on the Forum looking for examples of Dover Studio photos, for a study I am doing on the local photographers.

Here is a list of the local photographers, and you will see there were two different proprietors for the Dover Studios, one having died in 1919. http://timetravellers.pbworks.com/w/page/101697721/Directory-of-Local-Photographers

It is the shiny lino, the painted backdrop and the woollen rug at the back of the studio which tells me something, as well as the clothing. I think the photo was taken in the 1920s, and the men were probably too young to have served in WW1, which would explain why they have no medal ribbons. I don't know if this is relevant, but there was a Remount Depot in Maribyrnong, probably about 3 kilometres from the Dover Studio as it was then.

Your photo has some different treatment to the fake windows to the right of the image, but I can't see the detail of it in the low res photo on the forum. I would love to see a higher res image if you contact me through my website. I don't suppose you ever worked out who the people were?

Best wishes,

Lenore

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