Future of Medals (i.e. $$$)

[keith119]

As time goes by most WW1 medals are buried with veterans, with families, in musuems, in private collections, and some on the marketplace. So the number of original medals still available to be collected is decreasing.

As the 100rd anniversary of WW1 approaches where will prices go? British campaign medals and foreign medals (i.e. Iron Crosses) are still relatively inexpensive on the whole. Prices will increase as well as the number of fakes.

So do you feel all the "hype" about the Great War that will surely materialize in a few years will have major impact? If so what are your predictions?

[gnr.ktrha]

Hello,

I remember when they had all of the commemerations for D-Day in 1984. WW2 medals were very cheap before and then all of a sudden they had doubled and trebled in price over night. Of course a lot of it was veterens replacing there lost medals, but also there was a big increase in collectors. I was only 11 at the time, and collecting then was a real hobby for a young lad with little money, it's all changed now .

I recon that with the added interest in the Great War, it is bound to increase the amount of visitors to the old battlefields and the amount of people wanting to own something relating to the conflict. Interest always pushes the price up.

Regards,

Stewart

[MACRAE]

The only price I have noticed is area by area London prices and Scotland prices differ a fair bit. The costs vary for pairs and trio's and KIA up and down the country.

Dan

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

As demand increases & supply reduces it stands to reason that "prices" will rise,anniversaries always have an effect on the short term increase of Medal prices,above the normal progression{otherwise I'd still be paying 7/6d for 1914 Star Trios,like I did in 1963!!!}I very much doubt that there will ever really be a huge increase in the number of real Collectors,"Investors" tend to get their fingers burnt & after a "killing" selling an accumulation of awards often find they cannot restock in sufficient numbers to continue & move on to the next Cash making opportunity,

[Staffsyeoman]

Fair points all. I should think - taking examples such as the centenary of the Boer War in 1999 - that there will be a 'spike' in 2014 as the big auction houses will try to recreate the 'dash to the sea' and flank around each other for big sales. There will be a coat-tail effect as high-prestige groups drag up prices in the room in general (£75, 100 for a BWM pair to a line regiment, say?) but these will tail off in the months succeeding as dealers find over-valued medals prove very hard to shift.

Some Queen's South Africa Medals that went for phenomenal sums 'on the hammer' in 1999, way over expectation, were falling back within months as they started to reappear on EBay and the like. I do remember one medal making less than half it had sold for four months before.

[yellow]

I dont remember there being much fuss when the Boer War centenary came around? It does however seam that more recently QSA prices have dropped and one can pick up medals to officers from good units with multiple bars for as little as 295 pounds. Of course it really depends what medals you have to sell. Boer War DCM's to well collected line regiment will never lose their value no matter how unethical historians portray the war to be, simply because so few were awarded.

In regards to WW1 medal it will depends what you are selling. Good gallantry is always going to increase in price, awarded to well documented actions, as well as casaulty officer groups. I'm not really sure what pairs and trios to OR's are going to do. The price of those seams very unpredictable. There are some collectors who value those and some who do not. When my grandad was collecting there used to be thousands of trios around......I can remember him asking me at my Nans "You dont want anymore trios, do you?".........I said "nnnnnnaaaaaaaa". However there are many new collectors who seam to pay high prices for trios with no realisation of the scale in which these were awarded. You might be paying hundreds for just a regular 15 trio just because the guy lived in your city, but from a re-sale point of view that 'value' which you place on the group is not even considered by a collector from another part of the country. Trios are not rare, just 'scarce' on the market at present. However with gallantry to desirable units they are both scarce and rare and thus are the better investment.

If your just buying with this 2014 rush in mind I think your wasting your time. You should of been buying in th 1970's and selling them in 2014. That is when the money could of been made on WW1 medals. The fact that collectors think that they can make money in a 150 pound trio to a private is just unrealistic in my opinion. I predict we will see many pairs and trios on the market in 2014 and the only groups that will be making the big money will be the gallantry with a connection to events of significance e.g. a military cross won for the first day of the somme.

[Neil Clark]

The cost of Great War medals has rocketed over the past 10 years or so. I can remember Military Medals being sold for less than £20 in the 1960's and early 1970's! Now you won't get one for less than about £600. The prices are bound to increase as these things get taken off the market by long term collectors and museums. I can never understand why families flog the things off in the first place. It's not as though they actually own the things is it, they are merely temporary custodians and the medals aren't theirs to flogg!

[yellow]

If one looks closely at the prices of which WW1 medal has rocketed one will soon establish that what has gone up is the Trios and Pairs, this is because the groups of real quality have gone into hiding. When you could pick up Victoria Cross groups from dealers lists in the 1970's these were an insignifcant amount of money in fact dealers listed them on the back page of the catalogue and didnt even bother to give the name of the man they were awarded to. However that is not my point, my point is if you look at the real quality groups DSO, MC combinations and compare their price with the wage of the average working man you will soon establish that real groups of quality have ALWAYS been expensive

For example you could buy a high quality terrace house for the same price as a Victoria Cross back then, for about 11 Grand. A good terrace house will cost you around 150 grand these days.....strangely enough thats around the price of WW1 VC. Thats called inflation.

[Coldstreamer]

The cost of Great War medals has rocketed over the past 10 years or so. I can remember Military Medals being sold for less than £20 in the 1960's and early 1970's! Now you won't get one for less than about £600. The prices are bound to increase as these things get taken off the market by long term collectors and museums. I can never understand why families flog the things off in the first place. It's not as though they actually own the things is it, they are merely temporary custodians and the medals aren't theirs to flogg!

Military medals are £275 upwards depending on unit etc etc

I know a Coldstreamer pawned his VC after the war as the family needed the money - and what use is little bronze cross if your children are hungry. Speakman (Korean VC) sold his to buy a new roof - if you need the money you need the money

[Neil Clark]

My statement above re flogging was aimed at family members NOT the person that won the thing!!!!!! - of course he is fully entitled to pawn it because it's rightfully his to pawn. Other family members are not entitled to flog it because the medal belongs as much to future family members as it does to the person who has temporary custody. I simply can't get my head round the fact that some people choose to sell the medal. I certainly would never do so... Roof or no roof.

[Coldstreamer]

if they dont want them (for what ever reason) let them sell them so we can collect them

Id not sell my family medals either but then I dont need £ xx that badly. Now if it was a multiple gallantry group and I had a child that wanted an education I couldnt afford then I dont know if I could justify keeping it. Hyperthetical as I have neither gongs nor child!

[Chief_Chum]

I was at a conference a while back and one of the speakers raised a point I have to admit I hadn't thought about before.

He said, "All of you buying medal groups for investment need to be wary. You are all from wartime generations or ones which followed soon after who had Action Men, Commando books and an interest in war. You are tying up a great deal of money in the hope that the X-Box/Wii/Playstation generations will value your gongs in the future as highly as you do..."

It's an interesting point!

[James Blonde]

As time goes by most WW1 medals are buried with veterans, with families, in musuems, in private collections, and some on the marketplace. So the number of original medals still available to be collected is decreasing.

As the 100rd anniversary of WW1 approaches where will prices go? British campaign medals and foreign medals (i.e. Iron Crosses) are still relatively inexpensive on the whole. Prices will increase as well as the number of fakes.

So do you feel all the "hype" about the Great War that will surely materialize in a few years will have major impact? If so what are your predictions?

Hallo Gents, with regards British Medals, In my opinion, the following points occur:

1. I do not think that too many W.W.1 medals were buried post-war, with the veterans, and included in the numbers issued would be those to the dead of W.W.1 who died in service.

2. Families may and do sell or dispose of these items, sometimes with very little regard.

There is far more interest in British medals by families has as been shown over the last few years, you will always find those who do not give a toss anyway, about their family history.

3. Thousands of Silver British War Medals have already been consigned to the smelter during the Silver selling rush of the 60's(?), therefore irrevocably, breaking up sets of British W.W.1 medals.

4. No doubt, there will be some hype with regards the 100 Anniversary of W.W.1, but what tends to dictate the price for British W.W.1 Medals is the Regiment and Person they were awarded to.

5. There has been relatively no faking of Prussian W.W.1 Iron Crosses,

(not to be compared with the minefield encountered with regards Third Reich issue Iron Crosses.)

Connaught Stranger.

[yellow]

Coldstreamer has a point. We live in a debt society where many young people have huge mortgages and are actively encouraged to borrow money. A survey undertaken by the Daily Mail discovered that 60 percent of young people would have no heistation in selling familly heirlooms to pay off a mortgage.

The people who are 'unethical' are not the young people selling the heirlooms, not the dealers or collectors bur rather the people in the finance world who encourage young people to rack up thousands of pounds worth of debt which they cannot afford to pay off. They have encouraged the 'want it now' generation.

You make an interesting point Chief Chum.........but what the speaker in question forgot to say is that there will always be an interest in conflict because this country is always fighting wars! Charge of the Light Brigade, Rorkes Drift and other important actions will never be forgotten and neither will the medals.

[Grovetown]

One thing that puzzles me about medal values - especially pairs - is why they are generally more expensive than, say, soldiers' ephemera?

My reasoning for this is that the (campaign) medals were all issued post war. In the case of a casualty, perhaps many years after the loss and also the medals were never theirs (in terms of a personal possession).

However, a pay book or small book (or field testament etc) would have been 'on the man' during his war service - and are far more evocative of his service than bits of metal awarded years later. In terms of 'memory', these items strike me as far more personal and redolent of the man and his time than the medals do. They are also probably a lot scarcer.

Yet they are generally about half the price...

Best wishes,

GT.

[Coldstreamer]

Ive found soldiers book (on its own) are worth more than a single BWM or Victory medal but not by much. Some "small" books have very little info in them apart from his name and number etc. People collect medals more than ephemera but you are dead right that they are harder to come by

1914 stars where awarded in 1919 and it depends on when you count as the war ended !

[yellow]

GT, sorry to sound pedantic but thats a very difficult question to answer. I can tell you that the reason why medals make more money than 'issued' paperwork is because a medal is an award. I dont believe there is a more complicated answer.

[Derek Robertson]

There will be "hype" around 2014 and prices will rise but I don't think that it will last much beyond then. Speculators will get their fingers burnt (hopefully ).

[Chief_Chum]

"However, a pay book or small book (or field testament etc) would have been 'on the man' during his war service - and are far more evocative of his service than bits of metal awarded years later. In terms of 'memory', these items strike me as far more personal and redolent of the man and his time than the medals do. They are also probably a lot scarcer"

I know exactly what you mean Grovetown. Last year, at auction, I bought a New Testament which was carried in the pocket of a famous VC winner during the action he won his VC for in 1915. If I had been given the option of being given either the New Testament or his VC for free, I would have taken the New Testament as, unlike the VC, it was there at the time!

Taff

[Grovetown]

I can tell you that the reason why medals make more money than 'issued' paperwork is because a medal is an award.

I know it's possibly a picky point, and I what you're saying - but for every medal pair awarded, which arrived in the post years later, there was a pay book which would have 'seen' the actions for which those awards were made. (And also a lot less likely to have made it to the present day...)

While I have 'representative' examples of medals, I'd generally much rather have something that 'was there'.

Best wishes,

GT.

Edit: PS/ Cheers Taff.

[Tyneside Chinaman]

Hi

I don't collect medals but when Tyneside Irish came out the price of a pair to a Tyneside Irish casualty went up from around £80 straight up to around £200 depending on rank etc. The following year the same thing happened to medals to Tyneside Scottish medals.

Whilst putting the nominal rolls together is my main interest I have to smile when I see these medals "Sold with research" i.e. a photocopy of a page from one of the books.

Indeed in one case a researcher sold a photocopied page to a lady in Australia for £50 for all the hard work he had put in.. Later when she got in touch through the publisher I was able to email her a scan of her grandfather in a group that I had since identified, for nothing.

I still can't understand the interest in "casualty" medals because the recipient never touched them. Gallantry awards yes but lots and lots of war and victory medals? I do understand the interest in the individual soldiers though and agree that ephemera is more emotive.

[James Blonde]

Hallo Gents,

It all boils down to the fact that many people believe that paper items,

are not lasting as long as or keeping as good a condition as the medals.

For me, personally, the fact that the medals were not present on the occasion plays no role.

I collect for the period of time the medal represents.

Many people collect paper items, and many others do not.

Connaught Stranger.

[yellow]

One other point is that paper work, signatures can be faked far more easily than a medal can be due to the nature of the processes and materials. All the modern day fakery thats going on is holding the prices back. To think that WW1 VC signatures are only worth 25 pounds each!

When it comes to collecting I`m a lot like the Arabian people...............In silver I trust.

[Coldstreamer]

"

I know exactly what you mean Grovetown. Last year, at auction, I bought a New Testament which was carried in the pocket of a famous VC winner during the action he won his VC for in 1915. If I had been given the option of being given either the New Testament or his VC for free, I would have taken the New Testament as, unlike the VC, it was there at the time!

Taff

what provenance is there that the bible (or any paperwork for that matter) was carried into battle ?