William Douglas Walton

[paul walton]

Hello, I am new to this fascinating site.

I am trying to trace my Uncle, William Douglas Walton. He was born in Carluke, Scotland on 23rd April 1897. He served in WW 1 in France and Mesopotamia and was last seen by family in 1943. In WW 2 he joined the Australian Army, US Small Ships Div. and Merchant Marine, for which I have all the records and recently I discovered his Death in Cairns, Australia, dated 7/11/58.

I have the following photo's and some recorded comments from his brothers.

Photo 1 is when William was in the territorials, before the start of WW 1, his brother recalls he would go away for the weekend and return by rail to Carluke, he believes it was with the HLI.

Photo's 2 & 3 are an older William in two different uniforms. His brother recalls William had put his age up to join in 1914 and was a crack shot and became a sniper in Mesopotamia, there he contracted Malaria.

Photo 3 show's William with a hat badge that looks like the Cameronians, note also the blackened buttons of his tunic, but did they go to Mesopotamia?

There's an Australian newspaper article, during WW 2, describing William "a Scot by birth, it was only natural that during the last war Walton should join the famous Black Watch Regiment in which he won the DCM and MM. The Distinquished Conduct Medal was awarded to him for holding up a Turkish attack with a machine gun for 17 hours without relief."

On William's WW 2 Australian mobilization form he states he served in the 2nd Battalion Black Watch Scotland and France, also on the Australian Attestation form, under previous military service, " yes, 7 years. No. 7407 rank Sjt, unit Blackwatch." Medical records state - bullet wound scar in neck.

Also in my possession is a large photo of William in a summer outfit, shorts and tunic with a pith helmet and a photo of a Badge (star and bugle with thistle either side) that was in his possession, which I believe to be a Cameronians?

I would like help to piece together William's WW 1 past. Whether the reported events are true or not. What units he served in and any other helpful information as I do not have any concrete evidence of his WW 1 deeds.

Thank you.

Paul Walton

[Stebie9173]

I can't help with the pictures but I'm sure someone can.

The 2nd Battalion of the Black Watch served in Mesopotamia (none of the Cameronian (Scottish Rifle) units did).

http://www.1914-1918.net/blackwatch.htm

Intriguingly the man with Number 7407 in the black Watch (Royal Highlanders) is indexed as William WATSON on the medal index cards.

Medal card of Watson, William

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Highlanders 7407 Private

Royal Highlanders 7407 Serjeant

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2

I wonder if this is a transcription error ??

Steve.

[Sparky53]

I've found him on HMV Temeraire in 1944. Have you got the ships manifest?

PM me if not.

He was a tall fellow just over 6 foot

Jane

[paul walton]

I've found him on HMV Temeraire in 1944. Have you got the ships manifest?

PM me if not.

He was a tall fellow just over 6 foot

Jane

Yes he was 6 foot and a half inch. No I do not have the ships manifest, please point me in the right direction. Thanks.

Paul

[paul walton]

I can't help with the pictures but I'm sure someone can.

The 2nd Battalion of the Black Watch served in Mesopotamia (none of the Cameronian (Scottish Rifle) units did).

http://www.1914-1918.net/blackwatch.htm

Intriguingly the man with Number 7407 in the black Watch (Royal Highlanders) is indexed as William WATSON on the medal index cards.

Medal card of Watson, William

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Highlanders 7407 Private

Royal Highlanders 7407 Serjeant

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2

I wonder if this is a transcription error ??

Steve.

Interesting, he may have changed his name as he was under age, is this possible?

Are transcription errors common?

Paul

[high wood]

As an aside, the photographer has printed the Cameronians photograph the wrong way round.

[Stebie9173]

Paul,

It was certainly fairly easy to join under a false name as very little, if any, documentation was required to prove name and age (though marriage and birth certificates seem to have been rquired when claiming seperation allowances for a wife and children).

And, yes, transcription errors are fairly common, more so with numbers and regiments than name, but not rare by any means. We will not be able to tell of course unless you download the original...

Steve.

[Tom Lang]

The cap badge in the centre photo is The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles). Note also the black tunic buttons which was also an indicator of the regiment.

I can't properly see the shoulder insignia in the epaulette.

Could these be juvenile uniforms made to 'sway' the young to join the army? (I don't want to say Cadet as this boy looks so young.)

Tom.

EDIT:

See the Cameronians website at http://www.cameronians.org/index.html

[Black Jock]

I can only find one Walton in the Black Watch with an award that is L/Cpl A Walton 8th Bn. who was awarded the MM. Someone will correct me but I think the lad in the trews is pre war 1900s. He may be Militia his side arm looks like a Lee-Metford bayonet,

[Tom Lang]

William Douglas Walton was born in Carluke on 23 Apr 1897, so in Apr 1914 he would've been 17.

In the 1911 census (2 Apr 1911) for Carluke he is shown as 13 years.

[paul walton]

Hi,

these are two photos of my Uncle, William Walton, born in 1897 in Carluke.

The first one shows William, on the right, wearing (I believe) a borrowed Lemon Squeezer Hat, from his brother-in-law on the left, who was in the New Zealand Forces.

The second photo shows William wearing a uniform with crossed rifles under a Crown, on his left lower sleeve. Also cannot make out the hat badge or the badge above the button on the right lower pocket. The buckle on his Belt, does this signify anything?

I believe he was in the Highland Light Infantry and / or the Scottish Rifles, he did serve in Mesopotamia 1917/1918.

Can anyone help me with this please.

Paul.

[Old Owl]

Looks a little like NZ (New Zealand) in the centre of the badges on the first photo--very hard to say with second photo.

[Blackblue]

Can you get a decent enlargement of his shoulder title on right of the first photo? Might be Territorial Scottish Rifles.

Rgds

Tim D

[Steven Broomfield]

The first photo are both Kiwis - the right hand one looks like NZ Rifle Brigade (black buttons?), and other should be identifiable from the collar badges, I'd assume.

The Jock in the second photo could be one of several - un-diced glengarry cuts it down a bit, though. Looks like he's wearing trousers rather than a kilt, so Cameronians might be a start.

[SteveE]

The first photo are both Kiwis - the right hand one looks like NZ Rifle Brigade (black buttons?), and other should be identifiable from the collar badges, I'd assume.

In the first photo I believe the right hand chap has borrowed the 'lemon squeezer' from his colleague as I'm sure he's sporting a Territorial Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) shoulder title, T/6/SR or similar (I'm not sure of the battalion number).

Steve

[Steven Broomfield]

Actually, you're probably right.

Actually, actually, you are right!

[gordon92]

Even with the poor perspective on the right hand photo, the cap badge looks much more like Scottish Rifles.

[roughdiamond]

Hi,

these are two photos of my Uncle, William Walton, born in 1897 in Carluke.

Any middle names you know of from Birth/Census records?

edited to add: - There are zero matches for a W or William Walton Scottish Rifles but there are 5 matches with the HLI, 2 were KIA, the others were with info from medal rolls.

William A Walton 14th HLI and 18th HLI, finished the War with the latter, neither Bn served in Mespot.

William 10th HLI, 17th Royal Scots, 18th Welsh Regt, again finished the War with the latter, again none of these Bn's served in Mespot

William HLI Bn not recorded, Army Ordnance Corps, finished the War with the latter and their roll does not record Bn's.

I should add it appears according to "The Long Long Trail" http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/highland-light-infantry/ the only HLI Bn to serve in Mespot was the 1st.

Sam

[paul walton]

Any middle names you know of from Birth/Census records?

edited to add: - There are zero matches for a W or William Walton Scottish Rifles but there are 5 matches with the HLI, 2 were KIA, the others were with info from medal rolls.

William A Walton 14th HLI and 18th HLI, finished the War with the latter, neither Bn served in Mespot.

William 10th HLI, 17th Royal Scots, 18th Welsh Regt, again finished the War with the latter, again none of these Bn's served in Mespot

William HLI Bn not recorded, Army Ordnance Corps, finished the War with the latter and their roll does not record Bn's.

I should add it appears according to "The Long Long Trail" http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/highland-light-infantry/ the only HLI Bn to serve in Mespot was the 1st.

Sam

Thank you everyone for your responses.

The questions I have are:

1/ There is no record of any William Walton in the Scottish Rifles {medal index]. Could this be because he hadn't served overseas with them?

2/ An article in the Hamilton Advertiser dated 15 Dec 1917 (transcript below) quotes his father saying that 'William Walton was in a stationary hospital in Bagdad,Mesopotamia, was with the Highland Light Infantry, and had been since the start of the war'. We know that before the war started, William was 17 years old, with the HLI as a Terrier, a weekend trainee. Could he of been taken on by the Scottish Rifles as a Territorial and then later, when he attained the aged 19, transferred to the 1st Bat HLI for service in Mesopotamia? The five MI records of William Walton in the HLI, none are him.

3/ Are there any records of his time in the Baghdad Stationary Hospital? I suspect it was Malaria, of which he suffered in his later life.

4/ Is there any online History of the 1st Battalion HLI, regarding their time in Mesopotamia

5/ I'm wanting to find his Regimental number so I can put a plaque on his unmarked grave.

Hamilton Advertiser 15 December 1917.

CARLUKE IN THE WAR

2nd paragraph reads:

Information has been received by Mr Charles Walton, Engine Row, Castlehill that his son, Private Charles Walton of the New Zealand Forces has now been admitted to a hospital in Hants, England, as the result of an injury received while on duty some time ago. Pte Walton who belongs to the Signaling section of his unit is 25 years of age. A native of Carluke, he went out to New Zealand about 5 years ago where he was engaged in agricultural work. He enlisted about 2 years ago and has been 14 months in the firing line on the Western Front.

Official information has also been sent to Mr Walton to the effect that another son, Private William Walton, of the HLI has been admitted to a stationary hospital in Baghdad suffering from Malaria. Private Walton who is about 20 years of age enlisted in the local HLI at the outbreak of war and went out to Mesopotamia in March of this year.

[paul walton]

I have another photo with William Douglas WALTON wearing a battledress with T6SR on the left shoulder this fits in with what is thought. That he was in the Scottish Rifles,Territorial 6 Batt.

[Blackblue]

Did he serve in the Merchant Navy in WW2?

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4332664

[Ron Abbott]

I trust you have seen this previous thread?

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26854

.....because if it's the same chap, there was a merchant navy sailor by the same name with DOB : - 23 April 1897.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4332664

[paul walton]

Did he serve in the Merchant Navy in WW2?

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4332664

I trust you have seen this previous thread?

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26854

.....because if it's the same chap, there was a merchant navy sailor by the same name with DOB : - 23 April 1897.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4332664

Yes, it is his WW1 history that is the biggest part of the jigsaw that is missing. He also served in the Australian AIF in WW2, The US Small Ships in the SW Pacific and the British Merchant Marine. I have those records, but nothing of his British WW1 service. I visited the Scottish Rifles Museum in Hamilton, gave a donation, lodged an enquiry but received no response. Also visited Kew. Very disappointing.

[Blackblue]

Ah. Knew this rang a bell somehow!

[roughdiamond]

I visited the Scottish Rifles Museum in Hamilton, gave a donation, lodged an enquiry but received no response. Also visited Kew. Very disappointing.

I was told when I was looking for info on the Wife's Grandfather's WW2 service that the museum doesn't hold any Cameronians records, , they were sent to central records when the Regt was disbanded, it'd explain "no response".

Sam