Franco-Prussian War

[andigger]

Has anyone else read this book? I am making my way threw and I find it really fascinating, especially since Michael Howard points out military tactics that were learned and forgotten before 1914. The first part of the book(up to Sedan) reads very easily. For me it takes a bit longer to get threw the battles in central France and of course Paris. It also outlines the different political and military visions of Bismarck and Moltke (the Elder). I would recommend it though as a great background to the modern history between Germany and France.

[CROONAERT]

I found it an excellent history of this fairly forgotten war, which I've always seen as a "trial run" for the Great War and the origin of modern Europe. It's one of the best of the "modern" (ish) general histories of this war (not that modern, seeing as it was written in 1961!), but don't feel that it could be described as a "definitive history" of it (as one reviewer once described it) as there are several other ,harder to read, but more detailed accounts out there if you can find them.All this aside, I'd probably rate Howard's book as the best of the English language accounts of this war.

Andy, if you find an interest in this war, I'd recommend that you read The Reality of War (this is the title of the English version)by Leonce Patry, who was a French officer in this war. Basically, it's his biography during the war, but it's a fascinating read and has now been translated into English.

Dave.

[Neil Burns]

I would also recommend this book and to step back a little farther Wawro's book on the Austro-Prussian War. Another conflict that gets scant attention in English.

Enjoy and take care,

Neil

[armourersergeant]

Was it not Kitcheners experiences of this war that led him to believe that the Great War would be a long drawn out affair, and thus not all the lessons were lost by 1914.

Also as this is a topic i am not up on, could some one explain to me what lessons learnt here were ignored in 1914-18?

Arm.

[AndyHollinger]

Howard's book on the Franco-Prussian war was wonderful ...

[andigger]

Also as this is a topic i am not up on, could some one explain to me what lessons learnt here were ignored in 1914-18?

Arm,

There are a couple mentioned in the book, but the one I just passed is below,

".....the (German) Guard counter-attacked (Le Bourget) on the early morning of 30th of October, after a day of shellfire; and their attack is a small landmark in military history in that for the first time the problems of infantry advancing against a position defended with breech loading rifles had been carefully and successfully worked out. The company columns breaking up into a skirmishing line had given way to loose lines of widely spaced men, making all possible use of cover, offering small targets and advancing by bounds, supporting one another by fire- tactics which the British Army was to learn expensively from the Boers thirty years later, and the Germans and the French armies were to have entirely forgotten before 1914."

[andigger]

Just had to update everyone as I finish the book....

The first part is great as I mentioned in my earlier post. After the fall of Sedan things get a little long. Michael Howard goes into great detail concerning each of the battles and the movements, etc. After the first few, it becomes a repetitious chronolgy, only the places and generals names change. I still like the book, and would recommend it, but would also warn the reader about the last half.

[Staffsyeoman]

Benchmark, masterpiece, not surpassed... Real history, really accessible.

(Get the feeling I liked it?) Every serious military historian should have it.

[Guest woodyudet]

Excellent book ... the best book on The Franco Prussian War I have read, although A.Horne's "Paris the Siege and the Commune" is very good - especially as a complementary volume to Howard's book

[CROONAERT]

Although Howards book may be the best English language book on the Franco-German War as a general history, for detail, I'd say that A Day of Battle by David Ascoli (Battle of Mars-la-Tour, with run up and aftermath - generalizes on rest of war) at least equals, if not surpasses it. If anyone has an interest in this war (which ,believe it or not, is my main interest),or is planning a visit to the battlefields (an easy detour from Verdun) then this book needs to be on your bookshelf!!!!

Dave.

[westkent78]

How about Wawro's book on the Franco-Prussian War. Is this worth investing in?

[Nicolas G.]

G'Day,

Howard 's book is also a reference in its French translation. For those who likes novel I recommand "The debacle" by Emile Zola, the famous writer. Easy to find in English.

Nicolas

[Nicolas G.]

I add it paste front book-info.com

"Published in 1892, La Debacle (sometimes translated as The Downfall), is the penultimate novel in Zola's great twenty-novel Rougon-Macquart cycle. As each volume is independent, there is no particular merit in reading them in order. Together, they present a comprehensive vista of nineteenth-century France in very much the same way that Sinclair Lewis was to portray American society, a generation later.

If you are new to Zola, I recommend you start with Germinal, the most accessible book in the series and widely acknowledged to be Zola's greatest work. The Debacle ranks as one of the great war stories of all time. Set in the Franco-Prussian War and its aftermath, the days of the Paris Commune, it is also that rarest of things, a successful political novel. (For the record, I nominate Under Fire by Henri Barbusse as the greatest war story I have read).

In this book, Zola demonstrates his characteristic understanding of human nature. In particular, he gives a compelling depiction of the profound closeness that can develop between comrades-in-arms on active service.

Although it is marred by Zola's tendency to repeat himself - in all his books, he tends to light on a word or phrase which he flogs to death through the course of the story - and some episodes are slow-paced, it is nonetheless a fine piece of writing. Full of humane wisdom and keen insight, it is a moving and memorable masterpiece.

Victory is just around the corner?

Written in 1891, Émile Zola's classic The Debacle, provides a ground level interpretation of what it is like see one's homeland suffer military defeat, foreign occupation and internal revolution. The Debacle covers the disastrous Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1871 from the French viewpoint. Indeed, Zola's novel is strikingly divergent from most late-19th Century European views of warfare, which saw conflict through the prism of personal glory and national aggrandizement. This is an exceedingly grim novel, without the slightest glimmer of hope for any of the characters. Zola depicts war in all its brutal fury, including battle, arson, murder, looting, children abandoned, treachery, and starvation. Indeed, the four horsemen of the apocalypse always seem close at hand in The Debacle, and usually preceded by large doses of despair and anguish.

The Debacle consists of three sections: "the trap," which covers the frontier battles between 6-30 August 1879; "the disaster," which covers the Battle of Sedan on 1-2 September 1870; and "the aftermath," which covers the period September 1870 - May 1871. Only inadequate maps and a tendency to overuse British colloquial expressions mar the Penguin edition of Zola's classic.

The main military characters in the novel are part of a company in the 106th Infantry Regiment/2nd Division/7th Corps in Alsace. Jean represents "the reasonable, solid, peasant part" of France, while Maurice represents "the silly, crazy part which had been spoilt by the Empire, unhinged by dreams and debauches." Most of the enlisted troops are presented as mercurial - brave, hard working and stoic one moment, or lazy, undisciplined and complaining the next. Certainly Zola sees the poor discipline of French troops, who discard weapons and equipment on marches, as evidence that the French Army had declined in quality from the legendary Grande Armée. The reputation of the French army of 1870 was based on a legend that it could no longer live up to, and this army marched to Sedan, "like a herd of cattle lashed by the whip of fate."

French officers, particularly at the company level were actually quite good, most of whom had risen through the ranks. Zola depicts Lieutenant Rochas, a stalwart veteran of 27 years, as typical of "the legendary French trooper going through the world between his girl on one side and a bottle of good wine on the other, conquering the world singing ribald choruses." French officers are depicted as ignorant but brave, fed on the legends of Napoleonic military invincibility. As the Battle of Sedan enters its final moments, Rochas stands, "flabbergasted and wild-eyed, having understood nothing so far about the campaign, he felt himself being enveloped and carried away by some superior force he could not resist anymore, even though he went on with his obstinate cry - Courage lads, victory is just around the corner." Even Captain Beaudoin, a bit of a fop, is able to display stoic bravery as his leg is amputated. Colonel de Vineuil, the regimental commander, is brave and imperturbable but little else. Higher level commanders are portrayed as more interested in their own comfort and careers than the welfare of the troops or the nation.

There is certainly no glory in Zola's depiction of war. The battle for Bazeilles is particularly grim, and Zola has a knack for phrases like, "destruction was now completing its work, and nothing was left but a charnel house of scattered limbs and smoking ruins." It was also unusual for a 19th Century war novel to depict what happened to casualties and Major Bouroche's aid station in Sedan is painted in the starkest, bloodstained terms. Most conventional histories of the war shift to the Siege of Paris after the surrender at Sedan, failing to note what happened to the 80,000 French prisoners of war. Zola gives the reader a vivid depiction of the suffering of these troops who were crammed into a small, disease-infested area, with no food for over a week.

Zola sees the debacle as a crime - "the murder of a nation." - with Emperor Napoleon III merely awaiting fate. Who was responsible for the crime? Through the civilian Delaherche, the capitalist, Zola points to opposition politicians in the legislature for failing to provide enough funds for military preparedness. At the grunt level, the troops blame their division and corps commanders - "the whole absence of any plan or energetic leadership were precipitating the disaster." Zola also points to the collapse of the French logistic system early in the war, which left troops unfed and short of ammunition, as attributable to shoddy staff work and a spastic command and control system. After the first defeats on the frontier, pessimism rapidly replaces blind optimism in the French ranks and a sense of the inevitability of defeat develops. Maurice concludes that, "we were bound to be beaten on account of causes the inevitable results of which were plain for all to see, the collision of unintelligent bravery with superior numbers and cool method."

Are there lessons for modern readers in Zola's 112-year old novel? Certainly an obvious point that Zola hammers home through his characters is that national security should be based on realistic assessments of one's own strengths and weaknesses, and not based merely on past reputations. While the French military was given the physical tools for modern war - the chassepot rifle and the mitrailleuse - the upper leadership did not possess the intellectual or emotional stamina for modern warfare. Zola also makes points about the nuts and bolts of foreign military occupation and military government that are just as relevant today in Baghdad as they were in Sedan. Finally, while Zola waffles on whether or not war is a "necessary evil," he certainly makes the point that given its inherently high cost in human suffering that it should only be embarked upon for reasons of national survival, and not merely to satisfy the whims of an opportunistic politician."

[Neil Burns]

How about Wawro's book on the Franco-Prussian War. Is this worth investing in?

It's on the Austro-Prussian War I would certainly reccomend it.

I could have sworn a saw a new book on Koniggratz recently. Anyone have any details?

Take care,

Neil

[westkent78]

Neil,

Yes, I've read the Austro-Prussian book by Wawro (liked it) but he also has a fairly new one out about the Franco Prussian War, which I was wondering if anyone had read yet.

Regards,

Matthew

[CROONAERT]

he also has a fairly new one out about the Franco Prussian War,

It's a 2003 publication. I did consider getting it, but, seeing as it's just another "general history" of the war (amongst many), I decided against it. Howard's book is about all you need if it's a general history you're after. But, if you're wanting to go into detail, then that's another matter!

Dave.

[Neil Burns]

Neil,

Yes, I've read the Austro-Prussian book by Wawro (liked it) but he also has a fairly new one out about the Franco Prussian War, which I was wondering if anyone had read yet.

Regards,

Matthew

Sorry Matthew!

I'm so prone to typos myself I thought you had made a mistake.

My apologies,

Neil