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Fromelles16: July 19th events


velo350
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A warm greeting to all,

I am a new member and this is my first post.

I felt I had to tell everyone how proud I am of Mr Lambis and everyone with the faith and tenacity to see this dig come to fruition.

If there is such a thing as the afterlife, I'm sure some restless souls of the men and their grieving families will soon rest in peace.

I know there are numerous proceedures which are yet to be implemented and the decisions involve several countries - and even more organisations. I sincerely hope the rest of the process is not tied up in masses of superflous red tape and politics. If this were the case,the blokes buried there would probably think that nothing has changed and the "powers to be" are still as inept as they were 90 years ago!

Best wishes,

K from Aus

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hello all,

i attach a link to a video on YouTube originally shown on Australian TV. Ray Martin is the reporter.

In it, an Australian historian states that in his view the British "covered up" the this incident..

controversial?

Robbie

The "cover up" issue has been discussed in another thread.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...mp;hl=fromelles

Cheers

Kim

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Ian - I think some folk regard any substantial disturbance of the remains as verging on the inappropriate. Personally, I think we must try to establish whether there are British as well as Australian remains - although this may well be seen by some as hair splitting. I have a British Great Uncle who died with the Light Horse in Israel.

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Personally, I think we must try to establish whether there are British as well as Australian remains -

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I had thought all along that there were British remains there.

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Russ,

Fair enough. And having been dead for the best part of a decade, he doesn't really have an opportunity to defend his position.

Cheers,

Mat

Neither Do the Generals concerned.... :lol: ...isnt Hindsight Wonderful.... :lol:

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A warm greeting to all,

I am a new member and this is my first post.

...............

If there is such a thing as the afterlife, I'm sure some restless souls of the men and their grieving families will soon rest in peace.

........................

Best wishes,

K from Aus

Hi K. Welcome to the forum. I hope we see many more posts from you. I suspect that the best we can hope for is that remains from a mass grave be re-interred in another mass grave. If, as you hope, this gives peace to the souls and descendants of the men, that will be a marvellous thing and one with which I think we can all concur.

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post-7805-1212695903.jpgpost-7805-1212694505.jpg

Medallions Unearthed During the Initial Stages of the Fromelles Dig this Week.Identified by a visiting Family Member as having belonged to His relative,Pte Harry Willis of the 31st Battalion.

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post-7805-1212695903.jpgpost-7805-1212694505.jpg

Medallions Unearthed During the Initial Stages of the Fromelles Dig this Week.Identified by a visiting Family Member as having belonged to His relative,Pte Harry Willis of the 31st Battalion.

Sorry can I ask a question, are these medallions named? If not how can the familly member possibly know these were carried by that specific soldier?

Mick

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Mick - I think the medallions were issued by a specific small town in Australia and the casualty concerned is the only man from that town among the Fromelles missing in action - not 100% proof but good circumstantial evidence, I suppose.

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Thanks Ian,i couldnt find the Media link to the Medallions,however as you rightly say,pretty good circumstancial Evidence none the less.Trouble now is how to link Skeletal remains to the Medallions and vice Versa.....a seemingly almost impossible task ?.

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"Unearthed During the Initial Stages of the Fromelles Dig this Week"....and ...... "I think the medallions were issued by a specific small town in Australia"......please correct me if I am wrong, however I thought these were found when the geo survey was conducted prior to the current dig? Also remember reading at the time it was assumed they may have belonged to a soldier from the town of Port Albert in Victoria????

Macca

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If and when the Remains of British Soldiers of the 61st Division are finally found during further Fromelles Excavations,will their remains be accorded the same intense scrutiny and attempts at Identification that will without doubt be applied to the Remains of Australian Soldiers that are discovered ?.

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I am sure that all remains found will be treated with the same scrutiny, attempts at Identification and respect they deserve.

Peter

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I'm finding this thread intriguing. I would like to look at the British input further, has anyone already done any work on this and tell me the numbers of British missing likely to be in the specific area, Bn's and Regiments etc.

Mick

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I am sure the archaeologists will treat all remains found with equal respect and we should keep in mind that the remains are also the main artefacts in the context of the dig. However, I suppose there may be a discrimination problem if DNA testing proves possible and is based on a DNA comparison with living Australian relatives only.

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I am sure that all remains found will be treated with the same scrutiny, attempts at Identification and respect they deserve.

Peter

Are you sure Peter? Remember the posts on this Forum over the recent burials on the Somme of Gloucestershire Regiment soldiers. Details about where the remains were found are still not known, nor is any detail of the efforts made to identify the remains. As their regiment was identifyable maybe there was a chance but we have not been informed.

As this is an 'exploratory' dig I doubt much detail at this stage anyway.

Jim

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I am very far from being an expert in DNA identification but I understand that one of the problems in forensic use is to show that the material is not ' contaminated'. That seems to me to present a fairly serious problem in this case. We know that certain men are buried in the pits. We can assume with high probability, close contact between remains of the men. If body parts are identified as matching living relatives, how reliable will the ID be?

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I am very far from being an expert in DNA identification but I understand that one of the problems in forensic use is to show that the material is not ' contaminated'. That seems to me to present a fairly serious problem in this case. We know that certain men are buried in the pits. We can assume with high probability, close contact between remains of the men. If body parts are identified as matching living relatives, how reliable will the ID be?

Another really big Problem will be the seperation of a mass of intermingled Skeletal Remains into sets of individual Remains.

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May I join the growing ranks of non-experts on DNA? I would like to non-expertly say that I think uncontaminated DNA might be able to be extracted from the interior of big bones such as the femur. Another thing to bear in mind would be cost. I have just had 43 marker Y-chromosome analysis done and the cost was around $200.

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I had thought of that, Ian but I was envisaging the problem sorting out the remains. It appears to me that every single bone would have to be tested and sorted accordingly. That looks like a lot of work and also, a lot of money. What happens to remains which are tested but not identified?

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