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Fromelles16: July 19th events


velo350
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The Royal Warwickshire casualties are from the 61st Division (e.g. David Thom was in 2/7th Royal Warwicks, 182 Brigade) at Fromelles and I think most have a CWGC date of 19th so I think the list could be OK.

Jim

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Those who are listed with the 61st South Midland Division seem to be OK. I’m querying the addition of names of men who were not with the 61st South Midland Division.

V.

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Hi Victoria,

I'd agree with you about the British list. I've just had a look through it and although I'm not an expert on British Div's, I counted 27 names of men who didn't belong the the 61st South Midland Div and probably wouldn't have taken part in the battle.

Is that about the number that you're querying?

Cheers,

Tim L.

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The cynic in me would say that they have simply taken all those listed on the Loos Memorial with a date of death of 19th or 20th July and used that to construct their list.

Marc

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The cynic in me would say that they have simply taken all those listed on the Loos Memorial with a date of death of 19th or 20th July and used that to construct their list.

Marc

Unfortunately, it’s worse than it appeared at first glance. They have done exactly as you suspected, Marc. However, they have included the six officers whose names are listed on Ploegsteert, but they have omitted the four men whose names are listed on Thiepval.

I shall have a word with the CWGC in the morning ………….

V.

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Dear Anne,

As you may have seen elsewhere on this thread, I am a reporter at The Times newspaper in London in the UK. I am researching those who were MIA at Fromelles, and was wondering if you would mind getting in touch with me on kaya.burgess@thetimes.co.uk ?

Many thanks indeed,

Kaya

Hi - My great uncle Prv John (Jack) Patrick Phillips was killed during the disasterous night of 19/7/16 at Fromelles.

I have been largely unaware until recently of the dogged efforts made by many of you to lobby and to get us all to this stage - I am very grateful.

I first heard the rumours of the graves just last year and as not a single item belonging to Jack was ever found - and whose death had such a profound and terrible impact on his family (in particular one sister) the hope that he may be one of those who has now FINALLY ALMOST been found...........is very gratifying.

I wish I standing and watching this final piece of history being so carefully played out in this peaceful distant field......I can feel his presence - along with his mates.

You are our eyes.

Anne

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Hi Sandra

I am new to the forum and have particular interest in the Battle at FleurBaix/Fromelles.

My great uncle was killed on the 19th July in this battle, his brother survived. I understand there is a 'dig' planned to excavate the mass grave, as my uncle is one of the 'nameless' I am interested to find out what is planned. Also it is possible that my uncle died and was left behind German lines, is there anyway I can find out if the Germans buried him or not? I have all the archival materials from the war records which are not terribly helpful, so would appreciate any information or discussion on the topic

Cheers

Julie :rolleyes:

Hi Julie,

I am a reporter with The Times newspaper in London in the UK, and would very much like to speak with you about youe great uncle who died in Fromelles, if I may? Please do drop me a line on kaya.burgess@thetimes.co.uk

Many thanks!

Kaya

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It would seem that the list was compiled by the MoD and released under the umbrella of the CWGC. I’ve left a voicemail message on the Fromelles/MoD line and am now just waiting to hear back from them. Ironic, really, that they didn’t want my list or research. They were obviously concerned that it would be full of errors ……. :rolleyes:

V.

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Very irritating that the CWGC has done such a sloppy job when they must have been aware that there is considerable expertise available to them on request. I suppose it's just arrogance.

Interesting that "The Times" knows where to come for help.

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Ian, if you Google the journalist's name, he's asked on many possibly helpful sites - I've discovered many new ones!

Kath.

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http://www.cwgc.org/fromelles/?page=english/diary-events

Some people might be interested in the CWGC Fromelles website. You can subscribe to the newsletter that will keep you updated with events etc.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

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There is probably going to be a flurry of articles coming through over the next few days but here is today's one from the West Australian :)

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?Men...ontentID=139798

I would have given up chocolate for life to have been part of the excavation team :)

Bright Blessings

Sandra

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On the BBC news this morning...reports direct from the Fromelles site......

Tom

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Yes, a very good piece this morning on BBC1 - another website (different from the diary pages above) 'Click Here for Fromelles'

It looks to be a very big operation from what they showed on tv this morning - and they are also building a new cemetery to bury the men in afterwards.

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On the BBC news this morning...reports direct from the Fromelles site......

It looks as if there might be quite a bit of coverage by the Beeb across TV/Radio/web over the next days/ weeks:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8032908.stm

& some video:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8033007.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8033005.stm

NigelS

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There was a report on R4's Today program about this at 7.45ish.

Interview with CWGC chap and an Australian officer introduced as a Major.

The reporter said "I see youre shaking your head. Have I got your name wrong?"

The Australian said "No, but I'm a Major-General"!!

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Ahhhh ... That would be Major General Mike O'Brien ... he has rather a dry sense of humour ;)

Bright Blessings

Sandra

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Just been watching one of the BBC TV reports on Fromelles; included was a an interview with a volunteer archivist with the OX and Bucks who showed a trench map - said to have been recently discovered - with a note giving a map reference for - I think it was 65 - burials; Some more of the lost waiting to be discovered, or ones which were recovered post war and already lie at peace in a war grave? The indication was that this would be investigated further, hopefully it will be be.

NigelS

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I have not been following Fromelles too closely but someone mentioned the Royal Warwicks. Alan Cobb's book on Fromelles shows that all 2nd Line Royal Warwicks territorial bns were at Fromelles in 182 Infantry Bde of 61st Division - 2/5th, 2/6th, 2/7th and 2/8th.

CWGC records shows 195 Royal Warwicks were killed in July 19th 1916

185 were in 182 Bde

9 are commemorared out of the area e.g. 4 on the Plugstreet Memorial.

This leaves 176. Of these:

25 at Aubers Ridge British

3 at Laventie

All with known graves

That leaves 148 - all on the Loos Memorial to the Missing.

So some could be in the mass grave!

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