Fedelmar Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Nope ... not teasing ... true story mate! Is there anything in the British Press? Any ministerial press releases such as we have? Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Is there anything in the British Press? Any ministerial press releases such as we have? Sandra Haven't seen or heard anything in the UK media yet, but then the MoD here don't appear to have released anything to the press, so that's not surprising - it will be interesting to see how long it takes the MoD here to get round to it... Keep an eye on this page, if anywhere I would have expected any announcement, as have previous ones, to appear here: http://nds.coi.gov.uk/environment/mod/ (the MoD home page can be reached from the link at the top - if you hadn't noticed ! another (but less likely) possibility might be: http://www.blogs.mod.uk/ NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripit Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Sandra Haven't seen or heard anything in the UK media yet, but then the MoD here don't appear to have released anything to the press, so that's not surprising - it will be interesting to see how long it takes the MoD here to get round to it... Keep an eye on this page, if anywhere I would have expected any announcement, as have previous ones, to appear here: http://nds.coi.gov.uk/environment/mod/ (the MoD home page can be reached from the link at the top - if you hadn't noticed !Hello all have an artical from R.B.L magazine but i cannot upload to the foram "minister of h.m forces brit Gov and Austrialian Gov. to build new memorial in Fromelles . cossack another (but less likely) possibility might be: http://www.blogs.mod.uk/ NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 1 October , 2008 Share Posted 1 October , 2008 Nigel ... the link is working ... either Twigg has forgtten the meeting happened or he has very slack media people Bright Blessings Sandra PS: Nigel ... you should give your favourite newspaper the scoop!! You could always say that the Aussie Journo's know more than they do!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 1 October , 2008 Share Posted 1 October , 2008 "We are waiting for the minister (Snowdon) to meet the minister (Twigg) in London on Wednesday and after that I think we'll know exactly where it's going to be," Commonwealth War Graves Commission horticulture manager David Richardson, who has been consulted over possible locations, told AAP. Hi Sandra I suspect the media here is waiting until the outcome of today's meeting is known; so hopefully something might be announced by the MoD here later today... NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 3 October , 2008 Share Posted 3 October , 2008 WWI diggers to get new French cemetery 3rd October 2008, 18:05 WST French authorities have donated an unused block of land to build a new cemetery for about 400 Australian and British soldiers found in a mass grave earlier this year. The grassy field is within a few hundred metres of where the bodies of the soldiers were unearthed in a series of pits on the outskirts of the village of Fromelles in May. The village council and French government have donated the land, with work on the cemetery expected to begin by the middle of next year. The cemetery, the first of its kind to be built in France for 62 years, will feature individual burial plots for each of the soldiers, whose remains will be carefully exhumed from the pits where they currently lie. An estimated 170 Australian and 300 British troops were buried by German troops in a wood on Fromelles' outskirts after a ferocious battle there in July 1916. Their remains were only uncovered five months ago by archaeologists carrying out an exploratory excavation of the site. Since their discovery, Australian, British and French authorities have debated where the men should be reburied. The current site, on the edge of Pheasant Wood, was ruled out because of drainage problems and complications posed by a nearby fuel line and overhead power cables. Defence Science and Personnel Minister Warren Snowdon said a large block of land across from the village church had been selected for the new cemetery. The land overlooks the former battlefield where the Australian and British soldiers fell during the Battle of Fromelles in World War I and an existing cemetery known as VC Corner. "These are Australian and British soldiers who lie together and will be reburied in a common cemetery with the dignity and honour and respect they properly deserve," Mr Snowdon told AAP. "Unfortunately this didn't happen after the first world war. "Whether there will be future finds of this nature is really an unknown quantity. "But from our perspective we have a responsibility to make sure our soldiers are treated with great dignity." The Australian, British and French governments have consulted the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) about construction of the new cemetery at Fromelles. The CWGW has started work on plans for the site and will discuss them with local residents next week. The entire project of exhuming the bodies from the pits and reburying them in the cemetery is expected to cost up to $A10 million, with the Australian and British governments sharing the bill. But the governments are yet to decide on whether to order DNA tests on the soldiers' remains so each can be properly identified. Lambis Englezos, the Victorian schoolteacher who after years of research pinpointed the spot of the mass grave, said DNA samples should be taken where possible. "It's my hope that procedurally, as they recover each body, they take DNA from those bodies and record it," he said. "If in time they get a match, that would be a bonus. "We are very happy that each of them will be given the dignity of reburial, but if we can give them their identity that would be sensational. "I would hate cost to be a factor in this. We've come this far. We have to give them their identity." Mr Snowdon said he would discuss the possibility of DNA tests with British Veterans Minister Derek Twigg when work on exhuming the soldiers' remains begins next year. "That subject is not something we will pursue at the moment," he said. "We will do it but it's a question of until the process gets underway we will not know what's possible until we get the exhumation process underway. "We need to consult with forensic anthropologists and archaeologists." AAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 3 October , 2008 Share Posted 3 October , 2008 Great news. And although the governments involved haven't always been too cooperative, I think they 're doing the maximum now (especially if the DNA-part will be realised as well). My compliments to everyone who made this possible. Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 3 October , 2008 Share Posted 3 October , 2008 I suppose it is not surprising that the DNA ID question has been kicked into the long grass of next year. We will have to be content with the announcement as it stands - personally I am convinced that they will ID test but I am sure those holding the British purse strings will need convincing. The passage of time is a good mechanism for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 4 October , 2008 Share Posted 4 October , 2008 Well perhaps people doing yabbering to journos might bring some pressure to bear There has been a fair bit of publicity here about our boys and the fact that we have been so fortunate to have records and to be able to trace living families that have given the matter a humanised focus has made a lot of difference. Perhaps a rally at the steps of Twiggs offices !!! Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 Yes Sandra a PR campaign is needed. I am convinced that the general public would get fully behind a proposal to ID these men if possible. DNA testing is inherrently fascinating despite it's Big Brother connotations - or maybe because of them? Granting some of these men their identity back would be a modern day miracle and a really positive use of the technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredJCarss Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 I am for DNA testing. They died for all of us and they deserve anything that can be done on their behalf. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Burbidge Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 The new cemetery in Fromelles will be situated between the Rue de la Basse Ville (which is the main road leading to the church) and the Rue des Vaulx (behind the village hall). An image of the proposed site can be viewed at this link http://www.defence.gov.au/fromelles/images...df00000_001.jpg. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tafski Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 I am for DNA testing. They died for all of us and they deserve anything that can be done on their behalf. Fred so do we include all the unknows that are buried already? tafski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 so do we include all the unknows that are buried already? tafski Obviously not. The Fromelles remains are a uniquely special case where the decision has been made that each set of remains is to be disinterred for individual burial . The deceased are a relatively "closed" group of people where there is a reasonable chance that DNA techniques can deliver IDs. In effect, the Fromelles 400 grouping is similar in nature to the Zonnebeke 5 where there has already been ID success. I would imagine that DNA ID may be used again in future depending on the individual circumstances of the discovery of remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 An article of mine on Fromelles - nothing to do with the mass grave, but a historical article about the battle - is appearing in the New South Wales Journal of the Royal United Services Institution in the next month or so. Look out for it, cobbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredJCarss Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 Tafski I am for using any current method available on unknown servicemen and women who have been found - but only on those who will be re-buried with honours due in a suitable location so they may properly rest in peace. I am not and never have been in favour of digging up cemeteries, they have been properly laid to rest. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tafski Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 Tafski I am for using any current method available on unknown servicemen and women who have been found - but only on those who will be re-buried with honours due in a suitable location so they may properly rest in peace. I am not and never have been in favour of digging up cemeteries, they have been properly laid to rest. Fred Fred As i have said before in this thread they fought together they died to gether and are still together today , let them rest in peace where they are now , they are at rest as they are with their friends why disturb them ? put the money to use in making pheasant wood site a proper cemetery tafski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 5 October , 2008 Share Posted 5 October , 2008 Tafski - that decision, right or wrong, has been made. They are to be moved. The next decision is regarding the use or not of DNA ID techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Tafski ... if you read the media release you will see the reasons why the Pheasant Wood site is not suitable for further use. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Victoria ... there you are ... thought you were AWL How are your Fromelles Lads going Bright Blessings Sandra Chris ... congratulations! As I am on the other side of the country I hope someone sends Sherlock and I a scan Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Burbidge Posted 6 October , 2008 Share Posted 6 October , 2008 Victoria ... there you are ... thought you were AWL How are your Fromelles Lads going Nope, still here and still plodding away and getting more frustrated by the day. Do you Aussies know how lucky you are? The final number stands at 321 officers and men, but with the exception of Capt. Geoffrey Donaldson, I have been unable to locate further proof of any other death in German hands or burial by the Germans. Service records would appear to be virtually non-existent, so I am now searching secondary sources. I’ll just keep plodding on. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Tafski, There's not much point going into that debate again - that's now decided for various reasons including the Pheasant Wood site being unsuitable for a cemetery. The fact is that the remains are to be exhumed and re-buried at a more suitable location. The debate is now about whether to DNA test or not. As has been shown by the Zonnebeke 5, DNA technology can be a successful way of identifying potentially many of these remains. DNA samples hopefully can be extracted and after that there is no need for the remains to be held anywhere and they can be re-buried ASAP after exhumation. Comparisons of the DNA can then be kept on file and as they are identified, the headstones can be altered. I'm all for it. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Yes, Tim, the taking of the samples can be done without delaying the re-interment and the creation of the new cemetery. ID can then be attempted at leisure. This delay will also give the UK Govt time to come to terms with the additional cost which will be spread over a number of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 The decision of what to do with the Fromelles lads certainly is not an easy one no matter which angle the powers that be would have looked at it. Bottom line is, had the post war burial parties known of the pits they all would have been in graves with a headstone reading 'Known unto God'. As another point to think about one of the Australians lads in the pits is Jewish. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tafski Posted 7 October , 2008 Share Posted 7 October , 2008 Tafski, There's not much point going into that debate again - that's now decided for various reasons including the Pheasant Wood site being unsuitable for a cemetery. The fact is that the remains are to be exhumed and re-buried at a more suitable location. The debate is now about whether to DNA test or not. As has been shown by the Zonnebeke 5, DNA technology can be a successful way of identifying potentially many of these remains. DNA samples hopefully can be extracted and after that there is no need for the remains to be held anywhere and they can be re-buried ASAP after exhumation. Comparisons of the DNA can then be kept on file and as they are identified, the headstones can be altered. I'm all for it. Cheers, Tim L. You have your opinions i also have mine lets leave it at that tafski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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