ss Whitehead

[Gibeltarik]

Old salts,

Can anyone help please with any details concerning the loss of the ss Whitehead in October 1917.

When and where was she sunk, what type of ship was she and who were her owners please? In fact any details would be really helpful.

Yours aye

Chris

[Michael Lowrey]

Chris,

Are you sure about that name and ship type? The Miramar index isn't showing any ships (steamers) by that name built before 1944... There was a Whitehall lost in July 1917, however, and Miramar doesn't include all ship types (under 300 grt or sailing vessels would be a problem).

Best wishes,

Michael

[Michael Lowrey]

OK, found it now, it's spelled White Head, two words. A 1172 grt steamer built in 1880 that was torpedoed and sunk by the German submarine UC 74 on October 15, 1917 40 miles NNE from Saida. 23 lost. White Head was a vessel of the Head Line which was owned by G. Heyn & Sons Ltd., Belfast.

Best wishes,

Michael

[spithead]

Hello Chris

From 'Dictionary of disasters at sea'

WHITE HEAD

Ulster Steamship Co.; 1880; Harland & Wolff; 1,172 tons;

249-7x31-2x15-5; 140 n.h.p.; 9-5 knots; compound engines.

The steamship White Head was torpedoed and sunk by a German

submarine 40 miles N.N.E. of Suda Bay, Crete, on October 15th,

1917. Twenty-three men were killed, the captain was among the

survivors.

Regards John

[Gibeltarik]

Hello Chris

From 'Dictionary of disasters at sea'

WHITE HEAD

Ulster Steamship Co.; 1880; Harland & Wolff; 1,172 tons;

249-7x31-2x15-5; 140 n.h.p.; 9-5 knots; compound engines.

The steamship White Head was torpedoed and sunk by a German

submarine 40 miles N.N.E. of Suda Bay, Crete, on October 15th,

1917. Twenty-three men were killed, the captain was among the

survivors.

Regards John

John and Michael,

Thank you very much. Now comes the difficult question.

I have done a search on the ss White Head in the National Archives and have found that

there is an Admiralty file with a heading of: -

ADM 137/3695 Loss of RFA WHITEHEAD and SS ELSISTON

My main interest is in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and thus was keen to identify this loss of the

White Head as I didn't have a ship listed in that august body as an RFA. (You see I sailed with

them - in the 1960's not during WW1!)

Would anyone know if the White Head was used as an RFA or was Managed by the RFA at

the time of her loss please?

Regards

Chris

[spithead]

Chris

WHITE HEAD was hired as a Store Carrier (RFA) 31.8.14 - 27.10.14

Special Sevive Vessel before 16.1.15.

Pendant No. Y8.1

Regards John

[Gibeltarik]

John,

Sorry for being a bit slow to-day - From your posting it appears she was hired to the RFA for only about 57 days or have I miss read you?

What would she have been doing as a Special Service Vessel?

As she was sunk in 1917 was she still hired to the RFA at that time also please?

Yours aye,

Chris

[sadsac]

Chris, follows Award for Heddles re sinking of WHITEHEAD note,

not WHITE HEAD and `store-ship' ??? ;

HEDDLES Thomas M N/E Lt. RNR 80E168

H.M. Fleet Messenger Chalkis

Admiral Superintendent Malta 11.12.18 Gazetted

Mediterranean Malta Station 01.01.18 to 30.06.18 Mentioned in Despatches

For consistent good work as Commanding Officer of store-ships "Whitehead" and "Chalkis", and the prompt judgment displayed when "Whitehead" was destroyed by an enemy submarine in October, 1917.

On two previous occasions he received the thanks of the Admiralty for his services in circumstances of considerable danger, and also an expression of appreciation from the French C-in-C for rescuing the officers and crew of the French Destroyer "Dagui".

Regards Sadsac

[spithead]

Chris

The information above was quoted from 'Ships of the Royal Navy' by J.J. Colledge Vol.2 and 'British Warships'

1914-19' by Dittmar & Colledge. Sorry but have no further information regarding White Head's service.

Regards John

[Lörscher]

... Twenty-three men were killed, the captain was among the survivors.

Hi,

as far as I know there are 15 dead and 8 crew made prisoners of UC 74 (as per her war diary), that will made 23 "missing" for the Allies at first instance, 12 crew rescued by destroyer RENARD.

I think this should be corrected...

These 8 prisoners couldn't be listed on the THM, sadly I have no names for them.

Oliver

[melliget]

Hi.

Don't have the 8 prisoners' names, unfortunately, but here are the 15 of M.F.A. Whitehead who died 15/10/1917.

BORG, CAMMILLO, Fireman, RNR

BROWN, JOHN, Engineer Lieutenant, RNR

CASSAR, GUISEPPE, Fireman, RNR

FARAGHER, CHARLES, Seaman, RNR

FORSYTH, JOHN, Third Officer, Mercantile Marine Reserve

FRASER, SIMON LINTON, Wireless Telegraph Operator, RNR

GALVIN, JEREMIAH, Seaman, RNR

HAMMETT, GEORGE, Fireman, RNR

HAWTHORNE, JAMES, Chief Steward, Mercantile Marine Reserve

LYNCH, JEREMIAH, Chief Petty Officer, RN

MAGRI, CARMELO, Assistant Steward, Mercantile Marine Reserve

MORRIS, JOHN HAROLD, Ship's Steward Assistant, RN

NEWDICK, HERBERT EDWIN, Petty Officer 1st Class, RN

NIXON, HAROLD JOSEPH, Third Engineer, Mercantile Marine Reserve

ROBINSON, JAMES THOMAS, Engineer Sub-Lieutenant, RNR

I note that all three firemen were from Malta.

regards,

Martin

[Gibeltarik]

Martin,

Thank you - useful.

Separately I have been doing some digging and have come across Harold Nixon's obituary which shows him as the Second Engineer.

The NA documents report the ship loss and show her as an RFA - and thats on an Admiralty report. Who are we to believe - MFA or RFA? The CWGC records are known to have errors - which they admit.

Chris

[Kath]

Thanks, Martin.

I've contacted Aldo Sliema as the Firemen's names do not appear on his page Maltese merchant seamen:

http://website.lineone.net/~remosliema/mal...hant_seamen.htm

Kath.

EDIT:

Have had email of thanks from Aldo.

[melliget]

..Harold Nixon's obituary which shows him as the Second Engineer.

I don't know, Chris. Here is the casualty list from The Times. There wasn't one specifically for the Whitehead - it included casualties from several ships. It has Harold Nixon as Third Engineer but, of course, The Times could have gotten it wrong too. Or the Admiralty, who supplied the information to The Times. Hard to know.

If it's RFA in an Admiralty report, you would expect them to get it right, wouldn't you.

regards,

Martin

[melliget]

I've contacted Aldo Sliema as the Firemen's names do not appear on his page..

Thanks, Kath. Good idea. There is a person called Vincent Borg, active on other forums (not sure about this one), who lives in Malta and is interested in ships and war history - it may be a common name on Malta but I wonder if there's any connection.

On the topic of casualties from Malta, I notice that, in the casualty list from The Times (see the link in my previous post), there are a couple of other BORGs listed that don't appear to be listed on the CWGC site. I didn't check the whole list.

regards,

Martin

[Gibeltarik]

Martin,

I had access to the December 1917 Navy List this afternoon and have found the Whitehead is clearly listed in the MFA section and not in the RFA Section. (The Captain is shown as Lieutenant Thomas M Heddles RNR).

I think I will have to take it that she was not a Royal Fleet Auxiliary.

Thanks for all your help.

Chris

[JulieJC]

Simon Linton Fraser is one of the names I have been researching from Beith's War Memorial. He is commemorated on the Chatham Naval Memorial as are 3 others from the Whitehead. All the other casualties appear to be on the Plymouth Naval Memorial.

I assumed casualties from the same ship would have been together on the Memorial or at least they would have all been on the same memorial - can anyone shed light on this please?

[David_Underdown]

Member Horatio may be able to shed more light, but I think it depends on the man's home port. Normally you'd expect to be assigned to a ship also belonging to that port, but in war time that didn't always work out

[KizmeRD]

From May 1917 onwards MFA Whitehead (Y8.1) was operating as a stores ship based primarily at Mudros. She would have been used to transport naval supplies between various ports and places in the Eastern Mediterranean.

Many of her original crew would have come with the ship after she was requisitioned in August 1914, but later in the war she also picked up a number of supplementary Maltese crew (after being transferred to the Mediterranean).

She was sunk (torpedoed) 15.10.1917 by UC-74 whilst on a voyage to Crete.

George Hammett was one of the Fireman onboard and he was a member of the Maltese Royal Naval Reserve (F.532).
Qualified for Trio, issued to WW.

MB

 

 

[M G Pettett]

On 10/02/2008 at 01:58, melliget said:

Hi.

Don't have the 8 prisoners' names, unfortunately, but here are the 15 of M.F.A. Whitehead who died 15/10/1917.

BORG, CAMMILLO, Fireman, RNR

BROWN, JOHN, Engineer Lieutenant, RNR

CASSAR, GUISEPPE, Fireman, RNR

FARAGHER, CHARLES, Seaman, RNR

FORSYTH, JOHN, Third Officer, Mercantile Marine Reserve

FRASER, SIMON LINTON, Wireless Telegraph Operator, RNR

GALVIN, JEREMIAH, Seaman, RNR

HAMMETT, GEORGE, Fireman, RNR

HAWTHORNE, JAMES, Chief Steward, Mercantile Marine Reserve

LYNCH, JEREMIAH, Chief Petty Officer, RN

MAGRI, CARMELO, Assistant Steward, Mercantile Marine Reserve

MORRIS, JOHN HAROLD, Ship's Steward Assistant, RN

NEWDICK, HERBERT EDWIN, Petty Officer 1st Class, RN

NIXON, HAROLD JOSEPH, Third Engineer, Mercantile Marine Reserve

ROBINSON, JAMES THOMAS, Engineer Sub-Lieutenant, RNR

I note that all three firemen were from Malta.

regards,

Martin

G Cassar was my grandmother's brother.  He is commemorated on the Naval War Memorial at Plymouth together with other firemen C. Borg, F. Falzon, G. Gerado, L. Gruppetta and G. Hammett.  G stands for Giuseppe (Joseph) often misspelt as Guiseppe but corrected on the copy of the actual grave register of the CWGC.  The surnames Borg, Cassar and Magri above are of Maltese origin.  There are many other Maltese surnames on the Plymouth memorial.

Regards,

Michael Pettett