Four Sergeants

[chantry1]

Hi Everyone,

Can anyone explain the difference between these four sergeants? Each has a slightly different uniform. I think they are all in the Lincolnshire Regiment. Are they infantry? The cap badge looks like the Sphinx of Egypt!!

The one sat cross legged is my great uncle Arthur Clarke, brother of my grandfather, Gunner Walter Clarke 89897. I am gradually gathering together a picture of granddad's activities in France during 1917/18 but would like to find out about uncle Arthur. When did he serve and where? Did he serve abroad? Did he survive?

All I have is this picture and a Lincolnshire cap badge which might have been his.

John C

Arthur.doc

[daggers]

John

Trying to open your attachment only gives me the text with no pic. Yes, Lincs Regt badge is a sphinx + Egypt and they are infantry. Have you tried the National Archives, documents online, for the medal index cards which could give you more - £3.50 to download?

If you haven't already looked, click on the Long Long Trail link at the top left of the screen and follow links to the Lincolnshire Regt, which will tell you more. Lots more help here from knowledgeable pals when you have done that.

Daggers

[chantry1]

Thanks for that Daggers. I don't know why the pic hasn't apeared. I'll try again!

John C

ps my fault!! I uploaded the wrong file!!!

[daggers]

Aha! Plenty there for the experts to get their teeth into. Not sure about the dog.

Good Hunting

Daggers

[Muerrisch]

The serjeant on the ground is an assistant instructor, musketry.

Man on left is [depending on date!] either a colour serjeant, or a CSM or a CQMS. I have a slight doubt because what I take to be a crown above his chevrons may be a drum.

Same for man on right.

May be unkind, but they do not all have the look of lean and mean front-line soldiers.

no overseas chevron and no wound badges suggests the same.

Man on right may have medal ribbons.

Close-ups may help me or others provide more detail

[chantry1]

Thanks, Grumpy. I'm afraid I don't have any better photos for close ups!

Is it possible to tell if they are regular army or territorials?

Excuse my limited knowledge of army uniform etc!!!

[Chris]

John

The shoulder titles that are visible suggest that they are men in a regular Lincolnshire Battalion, rather than a Territorial Battalion. Closeups, like Grumpy says may help. Also i see from another post that you have Walters files from ancestry. They may have somewhere in them mentions of his brothers - along shot but worth a good look. Can you tell us where they are from as many of the Lincs experts on here have lengthy lists of local men that served.

Chris

[chantry1]

Thanks Chris.

Arthur was born on 14/10/1890 at Holbeach, South Lincolnshire and lived there after he was married.

The others in the picture, I don't yet know!

Any further info I get I'll post here!

John.

[veklee]

Aha! Plenty there for the experts to get their teeth into. Not sure about the dog.

Good Hunting

Daggers

now the dogs easy looks like a spitz/pom

barry

[Chris]

John

Bit far from my local area, being the opposite end of the county. Lincoln Archives on Rumboldt Street in Lincoln hold a document called the Absent Voters List from 1918 /19. It covers several areas from the south part of the county but not sure if it covers Holbeach. If it does then it will give you Arthur (presuming he was a registered voter there in 1918/19) and probably other family members military numbers from which you can futher your research. Give the Archives a ring and ask if the document covers Holbeach.

chris

[chantry1]

I've examined the photo more closely and it looks as if the three sergeants at the back all have some medal ribbons, but impossible to identify any of them. The one on the right has the most! The one on the left definitely has a crown above the chevrons.

John C

[Muerrisch]

Man crown either CSjt if before 1914, or CSM or CQMS if 1914 to mid 1915.

Can't do the uniform dating though.

[chantry1]

Thanks Chris. I'll try that line!

I've been working in Lincoln recently and may very well be back in the future, so I'll follow up with a visit to Rumboldt Street!!

[PhilB]

now the dogs easy looks like a spitz/pom

barry

Too big for a pom, looks a bit spitzy but doubt if there were any here then. Probably Heinz!

[Michael Johnson]

The chap on the right probably has a Queen's South Africa, King's South Africa (judging by the white stripe) and possibly a LSGC.

[Grovetown]

Can't do the uniform dating though.

Chap on the right seems to be wearing the Simplified Service Dress, which would date the image as, at least, post-October 1914.

Best wishes,

GT.

[veklee]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Feb 4 2008, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too big for a pom, looks a bit spitzy but doubt if there were any here then. Probably Heinz!

hi phil queen victoria had large white poms , looking like a jap spitz or small white keeshond ,sorry this is out of context with thread

barry

[PhilB]

Could be, Barry - styles change. Not really a soldier`s dog, though? Enough dogs! We`ll have the boss after us!

[windebrowe]

Three older men at the back look like old veterans returned to the colours to train up the new army.

Steve

[centurion]

One certainly has what Terry Pratchet described as a Colonesqe figure.

[FROGSMILE]

Three older men at the back look like old veterans returned to the colours to train up the new army.

Steve

Spot on I think.

[yellow]

woof woof woof..........woof

[Neil Clark]

May be unkind, but they do not all have the look of lean and mean front-line soldiers.

I completely disagree! Although the CSM on the left looks quite elderly (in his 50's) the others look like veteran "English Lions" to me. Typically these experienced former regulars were used to train new recruits at UK infantry depots.

[yellow]

Typically these experienced former regulars were often used to train new recruits at UK infantry depots.

Like the ones at Cannock Chase in Staffordshire for example? I`m waiting for the Lincolnshire Regiment historians to get here to tell us all about this one. They should be able to tell us who looked after the dog.