17 West Yorkshire - Soldier's Service Number

[Chris Best]

Good morning, Pals

I'd have sent this direct to Leeds Andy but his list of regimental numbers only goes to 1220 (see his thread in the units and formations section).

The man I'm interested in (on behalf of his great niece, a neighbour of mine) is 17/1332 LCpl Ernest Wainwright.

Can any of you West Yorks specialists give me an indication when he might have mustered?

Cheers

Chris

[WhiteWolf]

Hi Chris

Ernest was born in Doncaster and Enlisted in Leeds, this is according to S.D.G.W.

K.I.A 30/07/1916

Regards

Andy

[kevin]

Chris

We know the 15th Batt numbers where allocatted in alphabetical order upto a certain level, as numbers where issused at Battalion level, these numbers as with the 17th will have been allocatted after enlistment, so does not give us a clear picture as the normal service Battalion numbering in the West Yorks. But we can assume as the 17th where forming in Dec 1914,and that there numbers where not issused in alphabetical order that Ernest could well of enlisted in the December 1914 or more than likely in the Jan of 1915, hope this is of some help, but as always his service record will tell all [ if not lost].

Regards as always Kevin

[Chris Best]

Ernest was born in Doncaster and Enlisted in Leeds, this is according to S.D.G.W.

K.I.A 30/07/1916

Thanks Andy. The problem here was that my neighbour only vaguely remembered her Grandmother (GM), Elizabeth, saying that 2 of her brothers were killed in the Great War. Using SDGW and then cross-referencing it with the 1901 Census we drew a blank. We found an Elizabeth Wainwright of the right age and with a Hunslet address. However, this Elizabeth's brothers do not feature in SDGW nor on CWGC db.

We puzzled this through. GM was also known as Sarah Elizabeth. No luck with the Census. Then GM's older sister's name was recalled, searched for on the Census and bingo - there's 'Sarah' with sister Gertrude and 5 brothers 2 of whose name and age correspond with CWGC records. Got 'em.

We'll visit Ernest and Albert next week!!

Thanks again

Chris

[Chris Best]

. . . we can assume as the 17th where forming in Dec 1914,and that there numbers where not issused in alphabetical order that Ernest could well of enlisted in the December 1914 or more than likely in the Jan of 1915, . . .

Thanks Kevin

Clear and helpful. My one query though is that, given his number is 1332, against a regimental establishment of about 1,000, might he not have been a bit later than Jan 15?

Regards

Chris

[kevin]

Chris

Just assumming a large uptake into the Bantams [2nd Leeds] so say formation in Dec 14 , i could see the number 1332 been allocatted in Jan [maybe late Jan], like i say assumming say 1300 men/boys enlisting over a 40/50 day period of say 50 men a day gives 2000 to 2500, and some of these lads would have gone to the 19th.

I have the facts that over a 16 day period in Sept 1916 over 4000 numbers where allocatted. So like i say i can see a Jan 1915 allocation.

Regards Kevin

[kevin]

Chris

Here you go, from another thread re a Pte S Pickles 17/1058 with a 11th Jan 1915 enlistment date. So the 17/1332 will be slightly after this.

Regards Kevin

[Chris Best]

Thanks, Kevin, for both the above. I follow your logic in the first but what I'm still having difficulty with is the rationale for a number which exceeds the battalion establishment being issued so soon after the commencement of raising the battalion - that is, before the battalion faced losses due to battle, DNBI, transfer or early release under some para of KRs. Nevertheless, for 'government accounting purposes' I shall suggest late Jan 15 as probable date of enlistment and, therefore, a volunteer.

As to the second, I'd spotted Sam Pickles in the Soldiers' area but hadn't read through to the end of the thread. I'll do that now.

Thanks again

Chris

[kevin]

Chris i think the problem is that these chaps enlisted into a pals battalion, a volounteer,[ as in other non Pals Battalions , lads turned up at Depot and allocatted number and Battalion] at what stage did the 17th stop issusing the 17/ prefix? Not Sure. But the 15th Battalion issused 15/ prefix numbers upto 1956 before there stopped, a few never went overseas and quite a few never served at all with the 15th Batt, there where used as reinforcements for various other West Yorkshire Battalions.

Regards Kevin

[WhiteWolf]

and to add to Kevin's post....

quite a few gained commissions whilst still in "Basic Training", either in to the Pals or other Battalions.

Andy

[Angular]

I saw a service record recently of someone (miner) who joined the KRRC in Yorkshire in December 1914; by the time he'd got to the depot in Winchester in January he was declared unfit for duty, due to lung problems.

My point being that men could have been declared fit by the doctor at attestation, then binned once a proper doctor had a look at them, so regimental numbers exceeding your nominal 1000 limit would have been required as the battalion made up its strength.