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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Launch of ' The War Graves Photographic Project' website


burlington

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Of course, if you wanted that number of photos from the Scottish War Graves Project....we'd gladly supply them, free of charge.

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Glyn

Why don't you email Steve and ask him?

Regards

martin

Sounds like good advice Martin. I'll drop him a mail and see what he thinks

Cheers

Glyn

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Glyn

Why don't you email Steve and ask him?

Regards

martin

That seems a very sensible answer Martin, as that will rule out the speculation!

I supported the old (and original project ) and will support this new one too. I am more than happy to help others if I am able to supply a photograph and have done so on this site. too The cost has been high in terms of man hours, petrol and nagging from my wife, however I enjoyed it and was pleased to help , as the satisfaction comes when someone actually takes the trouble to write and say thank you.

I would love to have my own web site, however the costs are high if you store the same amount of information and photographs these two projects have and I guess someone has to pay for it in one way or another-hence the request for donations! So long as it does not make a profit and the funds a ploughed back in, I am comfortable with that!

I guess one of the reasons why you cant upoad your own photographs is due to quality control, size restraints and uniformity and accept this.

Both projects have provided many thousands of people with photographs they may not have been able to take themselves - long may they continue along with sites such as the Roll of Honour and WW1 Cemeteries - not forgetting this wonderful forum too.

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Sounds like good advice Martin. I'll drop him a mail and see what he thinks

Cheers

Glyn

And I didn't have to wait long for a reply which is nice.

There will be a sliding scale of charges dependant on numbers. We are expecting other smaller project to make contact but as you will be aware it is far easier to sit in front of a PC ordering them than it is to pay to go and get the images as we and our volunteers have to. To run this site costs money which we need to cover as we are not being funded by anyone.

What should be taken into consideration when making a donation is how much it might have cost to go an get them and sort through a million names to get them

Hope that helps

Steve Rogers

Project Co-ordinator

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Stev'e answer seems very fair to me. I will certainly support the new project and wouldnt hesitate to pay the fee if I wanted a much needed photograph!

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Forgive people being sceptical - maybe those of us with a lot of Internet experience get that way. The strength of this forum is the way questions are asked and answered in such an incredibly adult way; hats off to all. I am now 100% behind the initiative and am convinced that funds will be used to give a great service. I will be in touch with the site and if I can help in any way I will.

Jim

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That's a great set of replies folks. Thanks.

It makes humble volunteers like me feel that we are doing something worthwhile.

See you all in Holland & Germany in May then? :D

Go HERE for details.

Martin

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If volunteers want to know if what they have done for the project has been worthwhile, they only need to look at some of the thank you letters on the original site to see the pleasure the photographs have brought to many who have never seen a relatives grave!

May the projects continue and with the support of forum members they could go from strength to strength and we could have an invaluable archive for the future.

I guess the CWGC must have thought it a winner to sign up to the alliance!

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Who owns copyright? Must be complicated if volunteers are donating pictures....are they handing over rights to the site owners?

Mick

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According to the Guidance and Volunteer Policy, By volunteering and forwarding images or information to the project you agree to share the copyright you hold to such information in whatever format to be used by The War Graves Photographic Project and The Commonwealth War Graves Commission. You will be credited as providing such information if your details are known unless you request not to have your name mentioned.

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I think that they could have made the effort to photograph the panels on the memorials and index these to the names. Otherwise it's just a generic image that could be found anywhere on google (eg Theipval) and even on CWGC for free. Also I looked at a random individual grave marker image and I agree the quality is not good, the image is not straight or centered. Great idea but a better execution is required for it to be a commercial venture.

Norrette

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Quire correct Gwyn. Shared copyright.

Frankly, I could never see a problem with this unless someone breached the copyright by using an image for, for example, a commercial purpose.

I never really think about copyright. If I take an image for a Pal on the Forum, I just give it to him/her as we surely all do, for their own use. If I am credited by the Pal for the image when it is published then all well and good, but I don't insist on it.

Martin

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I've just had a look at the site. One thing I noticed in that in the drop down menu for Nationality, there is a choice of Canadian and also Canadain. Might pay to delete the incorrectly spelt version? I know when I see such typos on sites I get the feeling they're not quite on the up-and-up as it's not very 'professional'. (Sorry)

Also, under 'Force' there are no New Zealand options such as Royal New Zealand Air Force, yet Royal Australian Air Force is an option. Are they not catering for NZ because we don't have a national project like Oz, SA and Canada? (That being said, there doesn't appear to be Royal Canadian Air Force, and I'm assuming they had one in WW2, considering they trained quite a few aircrew in Canada from all around the commonwealth?)

Lastly, getting 'O matches found' - does that mean I've supposedly put in the wrong information, or that they just don't have the photo in question? Because I think it should tell you which.

Allie

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Norrette

You have to remember that the photographs are taken by amateurs and volunteers to boot! As i understood it from the original project, there are guidelines for photography and the owners of the sites try and encourage a certain standard, hence the reason they will not let donors upload photos themselves! The funds go to keep the site going and it is not for profit for the individuals-in fact they are probably out of pocket at the end of the day! I for one would be happy with any photograph of a grave if a professional image was not available. Having been a volunteer for the original project and a supporter of the new project, I have personally photographed over a hundred graves in one day in temperatures (in Cairo and El Alamein) of over 100 degrees and by the time you have bobbed up and down getting to headstone level with more than half a dozen graves its no wonder that some are off centre or slightly out of line. Have you vlounteered yet by the way?

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Allie-What do you mean by "not quite on the up and up"?

The organisers of the sites are not professionals, they are like the majority of us, enthusiastic amateurs who are spending a great deal of time and their own money to help others.

Have you volunteered to help any of these projects? Maybe you should offer to be the co-ordinator for the site and cover the Canadian and New Zealand graves you mentioned, as I think all volunteers are welcome, even nit pickers!

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Also I looked at a random individual grave marker image and I agree the quality is not good, the image is not straight or centered. Great idea but a better execution is required for it to be a commercial venture.

Norrette

I have looked at a number of photographs and find the results acceptable.

Given that the photographs were taken by volunteers who would have varying degrees of expertise rather than professional photographers I think that some latitude can be allowed for an off centre or slightly leaning photograph.

At the end of the day there is now a web site that has photographs available that would not otherwise be there.

I think the volunteers should be applauded for their time and effort, and in some if not many cases, their willingness to incur a relatively large expense for something that many many people will reap the benefit of.

Doug

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Norette

The panels on most of the major memorials have been done already. It is probably a matter of time getting them on to the database. Each name would be individually indexed.

I think your criticism is a little harsh. The environment in which many images are taken is not always good, there may not be enough room to kneel or bend down, or it may simply be a question of tiredness. Don't forget also, when you are taking very many images a day, sometimes well over a 1000, it is not always feasible to check the quality of each image as it is taken.

And just to remind you please, this is NOT a commercial venture. If it was, you could throw money and other resources at it and the charge would reflect this.

I think Kirkes Lamb's question is right. Why not volunteer?

Martin

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Allie

I shall ignore the first para. of your posting. I think the comment is unworthy.

However, the comments you have made about the drop down menus should really be addressed to Steve Rogers.

And, for the record, we do take NZ, as well as SA, Indian, Portugese, Czech and so on. Including Canadian and Oz, though these countries are already fully covered I think.

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I don't really have a problem with copyright of a grave photo, because I would be very unlikely to use it for my own purposes and I wouldn't be trying to achieve some sort of individual artistic interpretation. It would be a simple record shot that anyone could have taken, except that the photographer happened to be me.

If it were such a brilliant photograph that it was used more prominently or to make money, then I would be glad I hadn't assigned copyright completely to a third party.

As someone who receives photos from volunteers and prepares images for uploading on to our own website, I am extremely grateful to people who go out of their way to take photos for us, because however much we might wish to, we just couldn't cover the entire UK. I would feel churlish to be nit-picking about their image quality and I would hope that visitors realise the spirit in which the photos were taken. It isn't possible to control and dictate to volunteers without alienating them.

The War Graves Project makes guidelines available (or it used to, I haven't looked recently). Really poor photos can be edited. It's easy to criticise the speed at which work is processed until you start doing it yourself.

Oh. Yes, I have. As well as handling a couple of thousand images for our own project.

Gwyn

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Allie

I shall ignore the first para. of your posting. I think the comment is unworthy.

However, the comments you have made about the drop down menus should really be addressed to Steve Rogers.

What's wrong with the comment I made?

I've just had a look at the site. One thing I noticed in that in the drop down menu for Nationality, there is a choice of Canadian and also Canadain. Might pay to delete the incorrectly spelt version? I know when I see such typos on sites I get the feeling they're not quite on the up-and-up as it's not very 'professional'. (Sorry)

The site is being touted on here by people who are apparently involved with it, so I put my comments on here as it seemed an obvious place to put them. I was pointing out an error and giving an apologetic reason why I thought it might be a good idea to fix it.

Allie

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Allie

I shall ignore the first para. of your posting. I think the comment is unworthy.

However, the comments you have made about the drop down menus should really be addressed to Steve Rogers.

And, for the record, we do take NZ, as well as SA, Indian, Portugese, Czech and so on. Including Canadian and Oz, though these countries are already fully covered I think.

I met a chap (called Ralph Mc Lean) whilst I was working in Cairo. He was working on photographing South African wargraves (plus any others he had time to fit in), so I guess South Afrtican graves appear somewhere on the sites. I personally took a few photos of Canadian graves when I was home in France, so I guess there is some coverage there too!

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I am doing Cumbria and North Lancashire for the project. I couldn't care less who has copyright for the photos I send to Steve - I take them in my own time and at my own expense and pass them to him freely becasue I think it is worthwhile. I think a lot of end-users will too.

In return, Steve emails me photos when I ask for them. Put something in - get something out.

Andy.

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I think your criticism is a little harsh. The environment in which many images are taken is not always good, there may not be enough room to kneel or bend down, or it may simply be a question of tiredness. Don't forget also, when you are taking very many images a day, sometimes well over a 1000, it is not always feasible to check the quality of each image as it is taken...this is NOT a commercial venture.

I think this is a bit of a catch 22. Someone suggested the ability to upload - but I think it was pointed out that the standards might not be maintained if that were to happen. But we are now pointing out that perhaps there is no standard in place as yet and as you say it's not commercial.

Why not volunteer?

Next time I am over there I will take images of the whole cemetery. If no uploading - can we send images to an email account? I would also suggest removing the generic images for those with no panel as you shouldn't expect a donation for an image that is already available on CWGC.

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