question regarding Arras

[Guest KELLYBROD]

OK, this is a silly question, but I want to make sure I have all my facts straight. My great grandfather is listed on CWGC as being remembered with honour at the Arras memorial. Does this mean that there is no physical grave for him in the cemetry ? Also, I would be interested to know from those that have visited the Arras area whether the battlefields can be visited. I believe my greatgrandfather died during an offensive at La Coulotte in the Arras area. Has anyone ever visited this place. I would like to visit when I come back to Europe in the Summer so I'm just curious as to what I can expect.

many thanks

Kelly

[salientpoints]

Not sure about other battlefields in the area but of course there is the Vimy Ridge Memorial Park plenty to see here, not just the recreated trenches but the proximity of the lines and all around you the landscape looks like the surface of the moon. Not to mention the notices about 'not walking on the grass'

There is also the relevant nearby cemeteries and I would not miss the German one at Maison Blanche just past south of La Targette.

http://www.theotherside.co.uk/tm-heritage/...as-vimy-1ww.htm

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?s...als/ww1mem/vimy

I also beleive more of the tunnels under arras have been opened (due to be in 2003). http://www.ot-arras.fr/ang/une.htm

Food for thought

Ryan

[Jonathan Saunders]

If going to Vimy can I recommend you read the Battleground Europe book first, certainly study the maps in it as it will assist you with where the trench lines were and who held what (basically the Germans had all the high ground).

Also I have only been to the Arras memorial once but I have been to Arras several times. From memory the memorial is on a peripheral road encircling Arras but I always find the wrong road, so make sure you have directions.

[Malcolm]

The Arras Memorial is off the inner ring road near the Citadel ( lots of signposts for that). It is in the Faubourg-d'Amiens Cemetery about 1.5 miles west of the main railway station. It commemorates those who fell and have no known grave - about 35,000.

Aye

Malcolm

[dycer]

Kelly,

I would second what Signals says about directions to the Memorial.

On my visit driving from Vimy into Arras I ended up in the Town Square and only found the Cemetery after driving round a maze of streets(including driving the wrong way down one-way streets!).Luckily a kind local Architect photocopied a Town Plan for me and I was able to plot my route to the Memorial.

Don't rely on the CWGC directions to the Memorial,acquire an Arras Town Plan and practise your French before you go, to ask for directions.

The Memorial and Cemetery are well worth a visit though so don't be put off if you get lost in the Town centre.

George

[paul guthrie]

As to whether his name being on the memorial means there is no physical grave in the cemetery the answer is yes. Of course by chance he could be one of the unknowns buried there with inscription A Soldier Of The Great War Known Only To God.

[Chris_Baker]

Large areas of the Arras battlefield from Vimy down to Bullecourt can be seen at close hand, if not actually walked across. However, building has encroached on the old front lines close to Arras itself, as has road and railway construction, and in this area it is not easy to see where the battle lines lay.

To answer your first question, the name on the Memorial to the Missing means that his body was never identified. He may lie in one of the many graves marked 'unknown' soldier' (and that's not just at the cemetery in Arras, but in the dozens in the area).

[Guest KELLYBROD]

Thanks you all for the information. I am excited about my upcoming trip. Have any of you ever visited La Coulotte in the Arras region? If so what is there? I'm just wondering if there is any evidence of battle lines/trenches from that region as my great-grandfather died 23rd April 1917 in an attack on German positions at La Coulotte.

Thanks

Kelly

[Paul Reed]

Hi Kelly,

I recently finished a book about Arras called Walking Arras which will be published by Pen & Sword in the UK later this year. It will contain details of the Arras memorial.

You might also find this area of my website of use:

http://battlefields1418.50megs.com/hindenburg_line.htm

On it is a guide to visiting the Arras area in a day;

http://battlefields1418.50megs.com/arras_b...efield_tour.htm

The village of "La Coulotte" is new to me; it certainly isn't on the Arras battlefield. Can you supply some more details of your relative - regiment, battalion, unit for example? I should then be able to help a little further.

[Malcolm]

From the main site:

The Second Battle of the Scarpe - 23rd - 24th April 1917

First Army

XIII Corps : 63rd Division

Third Army

VI Corps :3rd Division (8th Brigade), 15th Division, 17th Division, 29th Division

VII Corps :30th Division, 33rd Division, 50th Division

XVII Corps : 37th Division, 51st Division, 34th Division (103rd Brigade)

This action included the Tactical Incidents:

The Capture of Guemappe, by 15th Division.

The Capture of Gavrelle, by 63rd Division.

Subsidiary action: the Attack on La Coulotte - 23rd April

--------------------------------------------

Attack on La Coulotte. 23 Apr 1917

UNITS.

1st Canadian

5th Div,

2nd (Canadian) Div,

3rd (Canadian0 Div

Aye

Malcolm

[Guest KELLYBROD]

Hi Paul

Here is the information you need

Private Tom John Smart

1/Norfolks (which would have been part of the 15th Brigade, 5th Div.)

43348

Died 23 April 1917 in what I assume was the attack on La Coulotte in the Arras sector.

Thanks for your help

Kelly

ps Keep us posted as to when your book is available I wuld be really interested to read it.

[Walter Kortooms]

"Official History of the War, Military Operations, 1917 *"

page 404

The Attack on La Coulotte

North of Gavrelle the First Army was confronted by the original German third line, already greatly strengthened, which, owing chiefly to unfavourable weather conditions, the artillery had been unable satisfactorily to prepare for assault. For this reason the major operation originally projected against the Oppy-Mericourt line had been limited, to al local action further north, between the Vimy-Lens railway and Hill 65, where the third line had not yet been reached. This action was to be carried out by the inner flanks of the Canadian and I. Corps, south and north respectively of the Souchez river. The objective was the existing German front line, in other words, that part of the Vimy-Riegel from the Vimy-Lens railway to Hill 65, where it joined the Avion-Riegel.

See map, just south of Lens on the road Lens-Arras: Coulotte!

Walter

[Guest KELLYBROD]

Thanks Walter for the historical perspective and the map. Much appreciated.

Regards

Kelly

[Paul Reed]

No wonder I wasn't familiar with it, as it is near Lens, and not on what I would personally class as part of the Arras battlefield... but this was obviously part of the battle of Arras. As it is not in an area covered by my book, I suspect I won't have any more information on this than is in the Official History or the 5th Division history, both of which have been reprinted by Naval & Military Press, who are on the web at:

http://www.naval-military-press.com