finding a soldiers death certificate

[Guest KELLYBROD]

This may be a stupid question, but were soldiers KIA given a military death certificate as well as a civil one? Also, where would I look for the civil cert. I have tried the online BMD index and can't find it indexed. Would there have been a long time period after the soldiers death before it would have been registered ? Is there a special index for deaths overseas that I don't know about?

Thanks for your help

Kelly

[Jonathan Saunders]

I am not sure KIA were given "civil" death certificates but certainly they were given "died in service" certificates (for want of a better expression). There is a register at the Family Records Centre for various military deaths covering most periods, I assume since 1837, split between army, navy, airforce, probably merchant navy and diplomatic corp as well. If you are having problems look up the FRC on the net and contact them by phone or email.

[Terry Denham]

Those that died in the UK were given normal civilian death certificates and those that died overseas received different certificates which are are recorded in the Government Record Office Overseas Death section.

Both types of certificate can be ordered on-line for England and Wales from the GRO at

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/registration/certificates.asp

or for Scotland

http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/grosweb/grosweb.nsf

The site also has links for Ireland.

[InkyBill]

I just received a letter from the ONS in regards to a request i made at the beginning of December for a death certificate for a man i know to have died at home of gas poisening.

The letter stated that although a search had been made for the certificate it could not be found, i was refunded only part of the 12 quid search fee.

With so many 1914-18 deaths i suppose this is quite common.

Terry if you get a min could you check CWGC for any extra info regarding his death.

Pte Thomas George Bird - West Yorkshire Reg - Died 27th May 1915

Thanks

Marc

[Terry Denham]

Inky

No extra CWGC info.

I suggest you check the burial record for this churchyard. The burial books often quote place of death (eg xyz Hospital or other address). This may help in tracing the death certificate - it will be there somewhere - probably nowhere near Essex!

The burial books will probably be held in the Essex County Archive by now but if not they will still be with the church.

I have had success with this route on a number of occasions.

[Andy Shaw]

Those that died in the UK were given normal civilian death certificates and those that died overseas received different certificates which are are recorded in the Government Record Office Overseas Death section.

Terry,

If I am looking for a death certificate for a man serving with an Irish regiment and who was born in Ireland and died overseas, would these be located at the London office or the Irish one?

Thanks

Andy

[Terry Denham]

Certificates are held by the office concerned with the area in which the death was registered not where the person came from.

Your example would be held in the Overseas section at the GRO - assuming you are talking pre-1922.

[InkyBill]

Thanks Terry

[nshighlander]

If a Cdn died in England where would the death cert be held?In the UK or Cdn?

Cheers

Dave

[Terry Denham]

In normal circumstances the nationality of the dead person is irrelevant in Britain. All deaths in the UK must have a death certificate issued by one of the relevant authorities. So, today, a Canadian dying in the UK would have a UK death certificate lodged with the office covering the area in which he died (ie Scotland, England & Wales etc).

However, as this particular Canadian was a soldier in wartime, I don't know if the Canadians recorded him as well or if there was an exemption from civil registration for overseas armies in wartime Britain. UK overseas military deaths are recorded in the UK and so, maybe, he was recorded by the UK authorities and the Canadian government - or just by the Canadians!!

Anyone know?

[Andy Shaw]

Certificates are held by the office concerned with the area in which the death was registered not where the person came from.

Your example would be held in the Overseas section at the GRO - assuming you are talking pre-1922.

Thanks Terry,

I have a man from the 9th Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers, who I am sure is a 1st July Casualty but the year on CWGC is shown as 1917 not 1916. He is commemorated on the Thiepval memorial and by July 1917 the battalion were in Belgium. If his death certificate confirmes it as 1916 would this be enough for them to change the register?

Andy

[Terry Denham]

Andy

You may not need to go to that effort. This may be a simple scanning or clerical error which would usually be obvious from their own records. They simply have to have it drawn to their attention.

Email them with the details on casualtyenq@cwgc.org . They will they check and if the error is obvious, they will change it instantly.

If their records maintain that the date is 1917, then you will need proof. If the death certificate identifies the soldier with a matching number, regiment etc, that should be sufficient. If it does not, you will have to prove that the man in their records is the same man as on the death certificate.

However, I suspect the first course of action will solve it from the details you give.

[Andy Shaw]

Thanks Terry,

Have emailed the commission with the query. Will let you all know what they say

Andy

[Andy Shaw]

Received the following email from the CWGC reference my enquiry about Private Shiels, guess the next stop is to see what his death certificate says, Soldiers died and the Irish memorial records show it as 1916.

Thank you for your e mail of 29 January 2004 concerning the following:

Casualty: Private ROBERT J. SHIELS, 16133

Served With: 9th Bn. Royal Irish Fusiliers

Died: 1st July 1917

Commemorated: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Somme

France

Pier and Face 15 A

I would explain that our records are based on information provided to the Commission after the war by the relevent Service Authorities, and as such we record the above date of death. I am afraid however that our documents for the First World War are incomplete, and we no longer have original documentation from the Service Authorities to allow us to investigate whether or not an error may have occurred. I can confirm however that our printed register for the Thiepval Memorial records the year as 1917, discounting the possibility that there may have been a scanning error.