William Dopson 25th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers KIA Egypt

[fortuna]

Hello,

I am researching members of my family who served in WW1 and trying to put them into some sort 'book' and William has just come to my attention.

I have already found a lot of in formation about William Dopson but would like to find out more about his time in Egypt where he died.

This is what I have:

William Dopson Born 1886 at Hungerford Berkshire

Enlisted at Newtown Mont. Residence Rhondda Glam.

Welsh Horse (what?) Regiment number 766 Private

Royal Welsh Fusiliers Regiment number 355769 Private

Catalogue WO 372/6

KIA Egypt

I know from past experience that medal cards can be either very helpful or completely the opposite!

Can you help with background information on the how, why, what they were involved in Egypt?

Thank you,

Researcher

I have the details of his Medal card which may or may not help me further

[SteveE]

Have you tried the LLT mothersite for background detail?

Here's the Link........ http://www.1914-1918.net/74div.htm

Hope it helps.

Steve

[fortuna]

Hi,

Thank you for your thoughts. I have had a look at the site you suggested but there is very little about the Egypt. Any more sugestions anyone,

Regards, Researcher

[Stebie9173]

The Welsh Horse was a Yeomanry (i.e. Territorial Force cavalry) Regiment. See:

http://www.1914-1918.net/CAVALRY/welshhorse.htm

As the link mentions the 1/1st Welsh Horse and 1/1st Montgomeryshire Yeomanry merged to form 25th Bn, the Royal Welsh Fusiliers on 4th March 1917.

Thereafter, they would have taken part in the three battles of Gaza (Google "third battle of gaza" to bring up some Wikipedia articles or the like that are quite comprehensive) before moving to the Western Front in 1918.

EDIT:

The first battle of the 74th division in Palestine wasthe Second Battle of Gaza:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Gaza

The 74th Division was in reserve for 2nd Gaza and never came into battle.

By October 1917, the 74th division were part of XX Corps and took part in the Third battle of Gaza - specifically the flanking attack at Beersheba.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Battle_of_Gaza

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beersheba

http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/gaza3.htm

This page gives some details of the actions of the 74th Division around the end of November 1917 when the British were battling the turks in the region of Jaffa and Wilhelma, on the Sharon Plain (Battle of Sharon).

http://historion.net/massey-jerusalem-alle...-holy-city.html

Steve.

[fortuna]

Steve,

Thank you very much for all this information. I shall look at all the links and see what I can discover,

I am very grateful,

Researcher

[michaeldr]

Name: DOPSON, WILLIAM HENRY Initials: W H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers Unit Text: 25th (Montgomeryshire and Welsh Horse Yeomanry) Bn. Age: 32 Date of Death: 30/11/1917 Service No: 355769 Additional information: Son of Charles and Emily Dopson, of Ivy Cottage, Shurdington, Cheltenham; husband of Ellen Maud Dopson, of 50, Queen St., Swindon Rd., Cheltenham. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panels 20 to 22. Memorial: JERUSALEM MEMORIAL

25th (Montgomeryshire and Welsh Horse Yeomanry) Bn. RWF, were part of the 231st Infantry Brigade, who, with their division, marched north of Dier el Belah (17 Nov) and via Gaza towards Mejdel and Latron (23 Nov)

28th Nov 1917 - A composite Artillery Brigade was sent forward from Latron in support of the Yeomanry Mounted Division, who were heavily attacked on the Beit Ur el Foka - Beit Ur el Tahta - Suffa line.

29th Nov 1917 - 231st Brigade relieved 8th and 6th Mounted brigades

30th Nov 1917 - and, throughout the day, was heavily engaged repulsing strong Turkish attacks between Et Tireh and beit Ur el Foka

[details from 'The Advance of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force...etc...' HMSO, 1919]

The map below is from the OH [Military Operations Egypt & Palestine (from June 1917 to the end of the War) Part I] which is worth getting sight of for the further details on this action - see pages 229 to 236

regards

Michael

[fortuna]

michaelldr,

Thank you for your help. I am pleased to get more details of what happened on the actual day he died, 30/11/1917.

Very grateful,

Researcher

[fortuna]

I have downloaded William's MIC and he was in the Balkans before going to Egypt. Can any of you tell me what was happening there in October 1815 it says he was in the 2nd Battalion, Welsh Fusiliers. And is there anyway I can find out when he enlisted?

Also he appears to have had the Victory, the British war medal and the star. The star has 15 printed in front of it, what does that mean?

Thanks in anticipation, Researcher

[Stebie9173]

That's the 1914-15 Star awarded for participation in a campaign in an active theatre of war prior to 31-12-1915. Balkans (2b) usually denotes Gallipoli. If you look at the Welsh Horse link posted above you will see that they landed on Gallipoli on 8-10-1915. They were attached to the 54th Division carrying ou some sort of mining activity in the area of Hill 60.

The 2nd Royal Welsh Fusiliers is inconsistent with service in Egypt and Palestine, although the 2nd RWf did spend a short amount of time in salonika (Greece) from November 1915. In what context does it state 2nd battalion?

Steve.

[fortuna]

Morning Steve,

It says at the bottom. I think I assumed that 2B meant 2nd Battalion me jumping to conclusions!

Theatre of War first served in (2B) Balkans

Date of entry therein 8/10/15

Researcher

[Stebie9173]

2B is a Theatre of War Code (1 = France, 2B = Balkans (Gallipoli), 3 = Egypt, etc.). His service with both the Welsh Horse Yeomanry and the 25th Royal Welsh Fusiliers strongly suggests that he served with the Welsh Horse in Gallipoli and Egypt before transferring to the 25th RWF on 4-3-1917 along with the rest of the Yeomanry Regiment and continued to serve with the 25th RWF until he died.

The 8-10-1915 is exactly right for the date of landing at ANZAC on Gallipoli with the Welsh Horse.

Per the Welsh Horse link:

(Quote)"In September 1915, became dismounted {i.e. left their horses behind} and moved to ANZAC bridgehead on Gallipoli, landing there on 8 October 1915. Attached to 54th (East Anglian) Division, for work on mining operations at Hill 60."

Steve.

[fortuna]

Thanks Steve,

It is all beginning to fall into place although I still have a lot to read!

Just one more thing how can I find out when he enlisted? If of a suitable age I imagine they must have been called up. I cannot get to Kew as I now live in Spain,

Regards, Researcher

[Stebie9173]

I've had a VERY quick look at men with similar Welsh Horse numbers, and it would appear that he would have enlisted in early 1915 (c. Jan-Feb, at a guestimate).

The Regiment (Yeomanry units were called Regiments, rather than Battalions as in the Infantry) was only raised in 1914, hence some very low looking numbers abound.

Steve.

[fortuna]

Thank you all for your help I can now begin to try and sort out William's story and get it down on paper,

wish me luck,

Researcher

[roselyn2]

I know that fortuna has not been on this site for sum years.  I’ve got some information for him.      Lyn.

[Michelle Young]

@fortuna May alert them to your post.