1st Btn Yorks & Lancs

[anwright]

I am interested in finding out as much detail as possible regarding the action at the Battle of Frezenberg on 8th May 1915, involving 1st Btn Yorks & Lancs regiment, commanded by :ieut.-Col. Isherwood. Any advice gratefully received.

With thanks,

Andy Wright

[jhill]

Once again I am condemned to point out a tantalizing source of information which is not quite what you need. The sketch below is one of the attachments to the War Diaries of the 83rd Brigade and the 28th Division (of which the 1st Y&L was part. The diaries and attachements for all of these (for April 1915!) are available here:

http://www.archives.ca/02/02015202_e.html

There are even copies of the battalion war diaries of the units involved, including the 1st Y&L for the St. Julien battle at the end of April. Unfortunately, most of the May diaries are not there.

However, there is stuff you can probably use. The diaries of V Corps for May are there, including the summary of operations for the Frezenberg operation. Also, there are sketches and maps like this one tucked around here and there.

Hope this helps.

[Max]

Below is a report by J.E.Munby (1/KOYLI), Brigade-Major 83rd Brigade

Report on the action of 83rd Brigade on 8th May 1915

By Capt.J.E.Munby, Bd Major

May 8th 5.30.a.m.

Heavy bombardment of whole front resumed.

8.10.a.m. Fifth Kings Own Regt were ordered to move to the G.H.Q. line.

About 8.30.a.m. The enemy moved to the assault but were driven off and the bombardment was resumed; a second assault was also driven off about half an hour later and the bombardment was again resumed.

About 10.a.m. The 3/Monmouth Regt were driven back and the 2/Kings Own retired to support dugouts about 400 yards in rear. About the same time Maj. BROOKE finding his left thus uncovered ordered his battalion to retire to the GHQ line.

10.30.a.m East Yorkshire Regt ordered to advance and support 3/Monmouth Regt.

10.50.a.m. Major BROOKE arrived at the Bde HQ and reported his retirement ( see report attached)

11.10.a.m. O.C. East Yorkshire ordered to stand fast in GHQ line and informed that 2/Kings Own and 3/Monmouthshire Regt would retire behind him. Apparantly part of the battalion had already advanced and he sent an order to the officer in command to retire; this information was passed on by that officer to the 3/Monmouths and 2/Kings Own and assumed the ______ of and was understood as an order by the Brigadier to retire. This retirement was carried out to the GHQ line, see attached report by Maj. Clough 2/Kings Own Regt.

11.30.a.m. 2/East Yorkshire Regt and 5/Kings Own Regt ordered to advance and reoccupy the original trenches of the 2/Kings Own and 3/Monmouths. Their total strength was only 550 and this they failed to do and after severe casualties halted on a line of trenches running west of VERLORENHOEK; they eventually retired to the GHQ line.

2.40.p.m. 1/York and Lancaster Regt. 950 strong and 3/Middlesex Regt 500 strong arrived from West of YPRES and reached the GHQ. Their orders were to retake our original line, the former on left and latter on right of the railway.

3.20.p.m. 2/East Surrey Regt arrived at Bde HQ and moved forward with orders to support the York and Lancaster Regt by moving forward astride the ZONEBEKE road.

3.40.p.m. Brigadier and staff moved forward to POTIJZE and on arrival it was discovered that the remnants of 2/East Yorks Regt, commanded by Capt. HOPKINS, 1/KOYLI by Capt. WARDEN, 2/Kings Own and 5/Kings Own by Lt Col. Lord R.CAVENDISH were in position in the GHQ line. These parties were sent forward at 4.p.m. with orders to advance alongside the 2/East Surrey Regt and support the 1/York and Lancaster in the recapture of the original line.

4.25.p.m. 3/Middlesex reached the point I.6.D and 1/York and Lancaster Regt reached the trench line running from VERLORENHOEK to railway, but there is no reliable information as to their further action. 3/Middlesex here reported that they were stopped by very heavy artillery and machine gun fire.

5.40.p.m. East Yorkshire reported from the above trench line that they were held up by artillery and rifle fire. Lt Col Lord Richard CAVENDISH wounded. The advance did not progress further than this line of trenches except in the case of the York and Lancaster Regt who appear to have advanced further but to have been driven back.

5.45.p.m. 3/Royal Fusiliers reached the point I.11.B and advanced in support of the 3rd Middlesex.

Discovered after dark that two companies of the KOYLI under Capt. MALLINSON and one company 3/Monmouth Regt. under Capt GATTY had never retired from our original line of trenches, but had held on until dark although their left flank was in the air. These companies retired successfully to the GHQ line where they were met and sent forward to the trench line near VERLORENHOEK.

At dark the troops in this line stood strength roughly:

York and Lancaster 150 on right touching 3/Royal Fusiliers

East Yorkshire 130

KOYLI 120 in support

3/Monmouths 65 in support

5/Kings Own 211 on left touching 2/E.Surrey Regt.

J.E.Munby Capt

Bde. Major. 83rd Brigade

Hope this helps

Andy

[Max]

Also a map of the Frezenberg positions for 8th May, 1915

[anwright]

Thank you for the information. You may beinterested as to why I am asking:

My great-uncle was Private 18214 Ernest Durham, 1st Bn., York & Lancaster Regiment who died Sunday 9th May 1915.

I understand he died of bayonet wounds on his birthday, having arrived in France only a few days before.

I have managed to find some general information from Regimental histories etc, but your postings really help understand the detail.

Thanks again.

[Guest NHildred]

Dear anwright, this may not help much, but might add some background.

My grandfather William P Hildred was a 2nd Lieutenant in the 1st Batt York and Lancs. On Thursday May 6th 1915 he landed at Le Havre and went to Rouen Camp, which he left on Saturday May 8th. Diary entry reads

"Travelled (by train) all night through B, C and O to P, where we stopped and nipped out quickly as they were trying to shell us. A march - such a march - to our huts where we heard 1st Battalion was smashed up, no more. Got to bed. This was Sunday night as we had travelled 22 hours."

The next day, Monday May 10th, he saw his first action.

"About 7.30 we all marched out:villages all torn to bits, huge shell holes, dead and stinking horses, lines of wounded, shells screaming. Reached support lines without mishap and got in to dug outs. Turned out again to go to the firing line with ammunition. Got some with am' boxes and some with sandbags. Don't know where others went. *(a reference to his friends Pearman, Essex, Lawes, Halcomb and Adsetts)*

Got orders to take half to right, half to left end of trench. Advanced across a field under fire and felt quite all right. You don't seem to notice it: 10 minutes before they had machine guns on us. Got all safely there and back and was told to fetch picks and shovels to same trench from down the road. Did this and marched back to dug outs. Got there before 2 o clock."

It turns out that the reason he'd lost track of his friends was because for some reason he'd been attached to the KOYL for that Monday. On Tuesday 11th May, it seems the York and Lancs were moved back, where my grandfather was able to re-join them.

This is mainly illustrative of the short time between arriving in France and being ordered into the firing line.

I am currently transcribing my grandfather's war diaries onto computer, as I fear the worn booklets which went with him from Ypres to Loos and Salonika won't last forever.

Good luck with your researches.

N.

[anwright]

And again, thanks for the information above - it is this background detail I find fascinating.

If you will indulge me, I will add a little more about my Great-Uncle to see what feedback it stimulates.

He died of bayonet wounds on 9th May, & I deduce that he would have been one of the 950 Yorks & Lancs soldiers described by Capt. Munby in the post above. Because of the type of wounds he suffered, I am assuming he was in the action described by Capt. Munby at 4.25 p.m. or even 5.40 p.m. e.g. in close contact with the enemy.

He is buried at Klein-Vierstraat Cemetery, Kemel, to the SW of Ypres. The CWGC state that this cemetery was begun in January 1917, & "The graves of 58 soldiers from the United Kingdom and one from Canada were brought from the Cemetery at the Ferme Henri Pattyn-Vanlaeres, Poperinghe........These men fell in May and July 1915...." I am therefore assuming he is one of these 58 soldiers.

I am interested to understand;

1) How did he get off the battlefield if he was so far forward - could he have been "walking wounded"?

2) Could he have been one of the 150 Yorks & Lancs in the line as described in Capt. Munby's report?

3) How would casualties have been dealt with? I suspect he somehow made it to a medical facility at Poperinghe, where he died the next day.

Of course, I could be totally misinterpreting the evidence - I would welcome any opinions.

[Annette Burgoyne]

Hi anwright

1) How did he get off the battlefield if he was so far forward - could he have been "walking wounded"?

He may have been able to walk or crawl but more likely the Battalion's stretcher bearers would have carried him to the Regimental Aid post, were his wound would been dressed. Then when shelling is not too bad, he would have been moved further down the line until he end up at Poperinghe.

Annette