WARNING

[healdav]

There is a warning being put out by the police in Luxembourg and Belgium

There are at least two men who dress up in false police uniforms or traffic warden uniforms or something else similar and then have been stopping motorists and 'fining' them, knocking on house doors and getting in on the pretence of looking for something or getting evidence to give property back,etc.

This has been going on for a couple of weeks now, and the pair (or maybe more than one pair) seem to be moving from country to country and from area to area.

Police recommendation is that if you re unsure about the identity of someone stopping you on any pretence (even if they are in uniform) - especially fines or similar, ask for their ID cards. If they take off in a great hurry! try and get their car number and report the incident as quickly as possible.

The police in both countries are desperate to get hold of them, and will not take it amiss if you ask for their ID. It is THEIR request that you do so.

They apparently only seem to speak French, so in Flanders you ought to be OK. In Luxembourg ask them to speak Luxembourgish. If they can't, that's them.

[auchonvillerssomme]

Won't be fooled here, never see real police let alone fake ones.

Mick

[centurion]

They apparently only seem to speak French, so in Flanders you ought to be OK. In Luxembourg ask them to speak Luxembourgish. If they can't, that's them.

I think that may be like identifying Welsh police by asking them to speak Welsh

[healdav]

I think that may be like identifying Welsh police by asking them to speak Welsh

Er, NO.

Luxembourgish is the national language. Only Luxembourgers can join the police. Ergo, all the police speak Luxembourgish.

[SiegeGunner]

I know very little about Luxembourgish. Have you a paragraph to hand in Luxembourgish on a Great War subject that you could post for interest?

[centurion]

Er, NO.

Luxembourgish is the national language. Only Luxembourgers can join the police. Ergo, all the police speak Luxembourgish.

Welsh is also the national language of Wales (and Erse of Ireland)! Working in Luxembourg some years ago I met Luxembourgers who didn't speak Luxembourgish. In any case I certainly don't speak Luxembourgish (or Welsh for that matter) so how would I be able to tell if they could speak it? They could reply in gobbldigook and I would be little wiser.

[Regulus 1]

Ask them in what country they live, and you should get the answer Letzebuerg. The Luxemburg language is a mixture of French and German, or perhaps better explained as German with a French accent.

[kmad]

Hi Centurion

what do you mean by "Erse of Ireland" in your post

Do you mean Irish as in the language? anyway all irish police "Guards" are suposed to learn how to arrest you in the Irish Language. A friend of mine recently joined and had to learn all sorts of phrases which was quiet funny as the last time he spoke the language was 15 years ago. He is now learning polish as it would be a hell of a lot more useful (not that they are not law abiding it is just that there is a hell of a lot more poobality of meeting a polish speaker that an Irish one)

anyway i am rambling

all the best

ken

[Gunner Bailey]

There were reports like this in the Pas de Calais and Somme areas a couple of years ago. Two men, one in uniform would approach people driving English cars and ask to see their safety jackets, first aid kits and fire extinguishers and if they couldn't produce them 'fine' them 60 €.

May be an urban myth?

Gunner Bailey

[inishowen]

Welsh is also the national language of Wales (and Erse of Ireland)! Working in Luxembourg some years ago I met Luxembourgers who didn't speak Luxembourgish. In any case I certainly don't speak Luxembourgish (or Welsh for that matter) so how would I be able to tell if they could speak it? They could reply in gobbldigook and I would be little wiser.

Any chance that you might be talking through your Erse?

[healdav]

There were reports like this in the Pas de Calais and Somme areas a couple of years ago. Two men, one in uniform would approach people driving English cars and ask to see their safety jackets, first aid kits and fire extinguishers and if they couldn't produce them 'fine' them 60 €.

May be an urban myth?

Gunner Bailey

This is NOT an urban myth. The warning is an official one put out by both the Belgian and Luxembourg police.

On another tack if someone met a Luxembourger who didn't speak Luxembourgish, or Letzeburgisch, they weren't a Luxembourger or Letzebuerger. Its their mother tongue. They learn German at school (nd learn to read in German) and then they learn French, so that by the time they get to 11 years old they have at least three languages (and in the case of foreigners at least four. There is no pandering to foreign children and their ethnic origins. You want your children to be here; they learn the language).

I don't have a WW1 example of Luxembourgish to hand - the spelling has been altered dramatically since that time anyway as until a few years ago it was not really a written language.

However, this is a paragraph that starts a book on the Grand Duchy in WW2:

Am Mee 1940 kënnt d'invasioun matt de Stiwwelfritzen. Hannendrun de ganzen Tross vun der Zivilwerwaltung mat alle Schikanen a Brutalitéiten. Duerch si a mat Hëllef vu Lëtzebuerger ass d'V.D.B. (Volksdeutsche Bewegung) ennert dem bluddege Patronat vun der Gestapo entstan.

Luxembourgish is a very old language, having roots back in pre-Roman Ardennaise, Celtic, you name it. It is possible to claim that in a sense modern German is a dialect of Luxembourgish as German grammar dates only from the 19th century (hence its a bit like Latin grammar).

They happily take in words from any other language (like English) and then bend them to the Luxembourgish intonation and grammar. More or less, German words are pronounced as French and French words as Germanic type. The pronunciation tends to be rather singsong with an up at the end of the sentence.

They still speak the language in a part of Belgium along the border (stolen into Belgium by France in 1839, and in the Eifel in Germany. Equally, a local French newspaper said that when the French army arrived in Thionville in the Lorraine in November 1918, they couldn't find anyone to speak French to as they all spoke Luxembourgish and not French.

[KIRKY]

Thanks for info will be careful when we visit in March.

After a couple of beers I speak every language fluently, but no one understands my accent!

Tony

[Jim Clay]

The use of the ancient word Erse to denote Irish Gaelic may not be acceptable today (?), or have fallen out of use (?) but I found the following definition at http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Erse

Erse n.

[Middle English Ersch, Erisch, Irish, from Old English Iras, the Irish; see Irish.]

1. Erse - any of several related languages of the Celts in Ireland and Scotland

Gaelic, Goidelic

Celtic, Celtic language - a branch of the Indo-European languages that (judging from inscriptions and place names) was spread widely over Europe in the pre-Christian era

Irish Gaelic, Irish - the Celtic language of Ireland

Scots Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic - the Gaelic of Scotland

Manx - the ancient Gaelic formerly spoken on the Isle of Man; the language is sometimes used on ceremonial occasions

Wikipedia tells me it's also a spelling variant of Scots airse (**** in English) but we know old Wikipedia, don't we?

Just thought I'd mention it.

Jim

[Dragon]

Perhaps we should take David's warning in the spirit in which it was meant.

Gwyn

[truthergw]

The idea that Erse is not acceptable is fairly recent Jim. I was taught in the 50s that Erse was Irish Gaelic.

[Jim Clay]

Gwyn,

I'm sure you're right.

Tom,

My recollection, too.

Jim

[kmad]

Hi Jim, Tom and pals

Never heard of the word Erse before as a term for the irish language, I am irish and I have school Gaelic to a reasonable standard (Leaving Certificate, A Levels Irish version) i will throw it around at the coffee room as a tester of 25 Irish people to see if they ever heard of the word, Interesting.

all the best

ken