Why join the RGA?

[priv]

I have a pair and 37 coronation medal to a man who served in the RGA.

His occupation was a Police Constable from Dundee - and his physical description is as follows:

Height: 5 foot 11 inches

Weight: 223 lbs !!!!

Chest when fully expanded: 44 inches

Age: 29 years 287 days on enlistment

Compared to the other physical descriptions I have of men whom I have researched - this man was a veritable Ox !

[centurion]

I believe the Scottish police forces at the time had a reputation for having some very large constables and sergeants, some lowland forces recruiting from the Highlands.

There is an account from just post w war 1 of two Glasgow tearaways who had been charged with assaulting a police sergeant of this type. When the sergeant lumbered onto the witness stand the defending lawyer took one look at the bestriped Grendel on the stand and his two bamtam sized (and somewhat battered and bandaged) defendants and suggested that the court might wish to offer them the opportunity to plead guilty on an alternative charge - attempted suicide. The two got away with the minimum penalty the court could apply.

[Saabman2005]

Further to this topic, the man I am researching, Lt Alex Russell, was an Australian studying civil engineering at Cambridge when war came in 1914. He enlisted and went into the RGA as a 2nd Lieutenant with 12HB. After the war Cambridge granted his degree without any further study in light of his war service. So this further supports the comment about engineering backgrounds.

Neil

[keggy65]

Dave

My grandfather's description from attestation/signing on papers:

(At 38 years) Blue eyes, 5'9 and a quarter inches tall. He weighted 149lbs and his chest, expanded, was 38" with an extra 3" when fully expanded. I'm no expert on mens' chests so ....!

He did work, variously, I believe as a "Stoker", "Smelter" "Iron Factory worker".

Mabel

[centurion]

So if you had an engineering background, could lift heavy weights and were good with horses you were the ideal candidate.

(In which case the army would post you to the Tailoring Corps, Pettit Point section*)

*Actually an invention of Peter Simple's but you get the idea.

[David Filsell]

In passing, whilst the RGA did not rank as prestigeous - unlike the RHA - its officers had a reputation as the most efficient and scientific gunners in the army. They were generally known as "the slide rule soldiers".

[wainfleet]

I do quite a bit of work with military officers. When I come across one who's particularly quick on the uptake, open-minded and generally a good sort, it's odds-on they are RA.

[PhilW]

"They were generally known as "the slide rule soldiers"."

Hence the entry in my grandfather's diary for May 30th and June 1st 1915?

"May 30th

Preparing to leave during the day. Left at 11.30 pm lovely moonlit night, rather cold

riding. Lost haversack, stolen.

May 31st

Arrived at Bethune 4 am. Too cold to sleep so had to wait till it got warmer. Stayed

here till dark, then left, arriving at midnight at an old pit, don't know the name of the place,

somewhere between Bethune and La Bassee, only 2500 yds off the trenches. Grand day,

breezy. Very little cover, gun under tip from cage waggonway.2

June 1st

On guard, setting the gun. Very quiet here. In a very bad temper. Cannot find who has

stolen the haversack. Would not care if they would return the slide rule. There are some rotters

in this troop - just about fed up - they would sneak a chap's false teeth. Temper cured -

received a parcel from home, a real topnotcher."

http://www.soar100.freeserve.co.uk/

[linden]

My great uncle Cyril Sharp is described by his nephews as a big man , so that seems to fit .

Linden

[truthergw]

Dundee, for many years had the tallest minimum height for police officers.

[priv]

Most interesting Tom.

His pair also included the Coronation medal of 37 - the roll confirms he was still a member of the Dundee Constabulary when it was awarded, and I understand he would have liley received this medal because he was lining the processional route.

[DavidMillichope]

This is what makes this forum so great. I've gained a very valuable insight into probably why my wife's grandfather started his service experience in the RGA. I had never known that "driver" was probably a driver of horses ( and prob big work horses at that). As an agricultural worker and a "giant of a man" he clearly fitted the profile. It all helps turning the names into real people.

[Black Watch]

Most interesting Tom.

His pair also included the Coronation medal of 37 - the roll confirms he was still a member of the Dundee Constabulary when it was awarded, and I understand he would have liley received this medal because he was lining the processional route.

Just as a matter of interest Priv, who was he? and where did he stay?

[priv]

Black Watch,

His brief details are as follows:

David Balfour Rolland

4, Millers Wynd, Dundee

Attested 27th October 1915

RGA - 38th Company RGA

Married Edith Simpson 29th April 1915 - also of Dundee. Sghe died on 15th March 1916. Her sister lived in 15 St Peters Street and her father Edward Douglas Simpson was a Diver.

Rolland was posted to France on 30th April 1916 and on 16th May 1916 he joined 80th Siege Battery. Promoted to Bombardier and De-mobed on 18th December 1918.

The Coronation Roll states: Rolland David - Constable - U.K. 6 Scot. C.B.Du.

I obtained the pair and Coronation medal (mounted as worn) from a cottish Dealer for the princely sum of £ 30. I have to say that when compared to other soldiers I have researched, David Rolland was a veritable Ox of a man !

I ned to see if there is any additional information with regard to his Police service - maybe that would indicate why he was given leave to enlist - he was 29 years and 287 years when he attested, as I would have thought that as a Police Constable he may have been in a reserved occupation.

Priv

[keggy65]

"I ned to see if there is any additional information with regard to his Police service - maybe that would indicate why he was given leave to enlist - he was 29 years and 287 years when he attested, as I would have thought that as a Police Constable he may have been in a reserved occupation."

Priv

I also had a City of London policeman relative (joined 1900) who enlisted in 1916. He ended up in East Africa in August 1916, struck of strength of East Africa Forces in March 1919 - and returned to the police force for another six years. It would seem not, therefore, to have been reserved or "starred" occupation.

Mabel

PS - He was in the Corps of Military Foot Police though!

[reformbill]

My father was a 22 year old teacher in a village Church School when conscripted in April 1916. He was 5'7'' tall and of slight build. He reached the dizzy heights of "acting unpaid supernumerary lance- bombadier" ( his words not mine). He served with 160 Siege Battery RGA manning 6'' BL howitzers.

In later life I knew three of his friends from the unit, one an accountant one an office worker and the third worked for Ordnance Survey. None of them would have been obvious choices for humping shells or manhandling heavy guns in the mud of Flanders.

Peter

[stevehowarth]

In passing, whilst the RGA did not rank as prestigeous - unlike the RHA - its officers had a reputation as the most efficient and scientific gunners in the army. They were generally known as "the slide rule soldiers".

This is an interesting comment, which ties in with an officer I have researched: 2 Lt Charles Lee, 249 Siege Battery, RGA. Prior to joining up he was a Maths teacher at a Grammar School in Skipton, Yorkshire. My assumption is that the RGA recruited men with specialist mathematical skill to help in the complex artillery calculations.

Steve

[PhilW]

Very interesting thread. I'm just musing but I wonder whether the recruiting system was sophisticated enough to be selective in some of the ways mentoned above? My grandfather left school at 14, worked on his father's small tenant farm in the Yorkshire Dales and, as such, I presume was used to hard labour, using horses to plough, harvest etc. From what I remember of him he was a big, barrel chested bloke with forearms like hams! But, by the same token, he was a "slide rule soldier" (see quote from diary above) and after the war became area surveyor for North Yorks (based in Skipton originally, Steve!). My Dad, reckoned that the RGA might have been the making of him, he learned to "survey", manage men, get on with all ranks etc which stood him in good stead after the war. So I just wonder whether RGA recruited the men as we remember them or whether the RGA (and their experiences in the war) turned them into the men we remember?

Just musing.

[Percy]

As this conversation is about the RGA I thought I would bring this man up who I have tried for information on a few years

ago.

He was my wifes maternal grandfather, I only met him a couple of times as we married whilst I was in the RAF -he was long into his retirement at that stage- and we came to NZ soon after (1967). His marriage certificate dated 14th February 1917 states his age as 21 and rather surprisingly his wifes age as 17? I also wonder if the date has some signicificance, Valentines Day?

His name was Joseph Sweeney and other than the name of his father the only other real information of any note is that his occupation on marriage is shown as "Royal Garrison Artillery Machineman". It was suggested earlier when I put this information forward that the "Machineman" part of his occupation could well have been referrring to his work prior to enlisting however searching occupations within the dockside trades which is were he was post service I have come up with nothing. I have also researched through the mining industry and that is not an occupation I have come up with either.

I have had some research done through Kew and have found 4 possible Sweeneys through the Medal Index Cards but they do not come up with any information that can pin one down to my Joseph Sweeney. Joe was a fairly small man and reading through some of the posts on this thread wonder how he managed to get landed with the RGA as he doesn't from my brief knowledge of him seem to fit into any of the slots that this occupation would require.

Regards

Alan

[Compo]

Just to play devil's advocate:

Cpt ES Compton. Height 5ft 6in, weight 119Lbs, Chest 33 to 35 1/2, RGA recruit May 1916. Age 40.

Only thing I can think of is that he was an officer cadet one week after he joined in the ranks and they knew they would not need muscle from him and an overseas merchant which must have meant fast with figures in the days before calculators. Mind he would need to be VERY fast as he was going into the anti-aircraft artillery initially deployed against zeppellins.

Not sure what this proves.

I also think the time in the war was important, initially they might have been fussy, but as fresh manpower became more scarce they got less particular.

[howard nobbs]

Hi Compo

Sounds like your man could have been a jockey.

That could have been a useful skill.

Howard

[Phil Evans]

This is the contents page from a pocket book entitled "Notes on Lectures for the use of the Gentlemen Cadets, No. 2 RGA Cadet School, Maresfield. 1st Edition, March 1917".

At least 50% of it is Maths/Trig. There are frequent prompts to use the slide rule.

Phil

[Percy]

Right then, further to my early post re Joseph Sweeney of the Royal Garrison Artillery>

THis is as far as I have managed to get so far.

these three names come from the Medal Index Cards

Reg. No 63530 Cat.Ref:- 372/19 Image ref:- 131019/21232

= 114999 = 372/19 = 131018/21231

= 118010 = 372/19 = 131020/21232

any clues on to how to move onto the next level?

[SFayers]

Both my grandfather and his cousin were in the RGA and were attested through the Derby Scheme in late 1915. Both were experienced 'oss men' on a farm in Suffolk before their attestation. Funnily enough, both were ranked as Gunners rather than Drivers (though I know my grandfather did drive horse teams later in the war).

cheers

Steve

[kevinrowlinson]

Right then, further to my early post re Joseph Sweeney of the Royal Garrison Artillery>

any clues on to how to move onto the next level?

Percy,

You could look at your original post started 2004 at http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...showtopic=11772 .

Basically you have do find something to tie your man to his service number or see whether his records survived WW2.

Kevin